Looks like Wootz (Vadim) has updated his Deburring Book to the 5th Edition:
http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop.htm
Any indication/information on what has been updated in the book?
It is a great resource and I follow a version of his deburring process, but what I do is not in his book. It would be good to know what is new and worth it before shelling out again/more for it. There is nothing in the description on KG's web site that I saw.
Is he offering free upgrades to those who purchased the earlier version? Didn't see that either.
Rick
I remember he included a signed printed copy with my FVB order and I was able to download the 4th edition in PDF format.
Respectfully, John, that does not answer my questions. I repeat, what is new and different that makes it worth paying again for the 5th edition:
Quote from: RickKrung on May 21, 2020, 02:27:58 PM
Any indication/information on what has been updated in the book?
It is a great resource and I follow a version of his deburring process, but what I do is not in his book. It would be good to know what is new and worth it before shelling out again/more for it. There is nothing in the description on KG's web site that I saw.
Is he offering free upgrades to those who purchased the earlier version? Didn't see that either.
Rick
Last time he updated, he provided a copy if you had bought an earlier copy and emailed him... not sure if he still will do that. (He doesn't seem to answer emails much anymore). Hoping he'll do this (and also send out the PIN update to his FVB that he changed)... ???
He did put out a video... in the first few seconds he shows what is new, in the index anyway... (if you blink you'll miss it).
https://youtu.be/TLfDeE7JRAA
p.s. from what I can tell the Kindle version is still older... so wouldn't go that route.
It looks like he expands on the myths that were debunked in his previous work and has added sharpening protocols for commonly used knife steels.
Rick,
I agree, it would be nice if Wootz' book had a page stating what was new in the various editions. A good suggestion for future editions. The Tormek handbook has that.
Some books, like Machinery's Handbook, change very little over the years. (Mine is the 1940 Edition, and serves my needs.) Wootz' sharpening research continues to advance. I think it pays to have the latest edition. I have read it, however, my reading time recently has been very start and stop. I have not found the uninterrupted quiet time it requires and deserves.
The PDF price on the Knife Grinders website is $9.80 AUD. That's $6.40 US, not a lot to shell out.
Ken
Perhaps not a shell out, but it would be nice to know. I don't think it is too much to ask to get the updated version if you've purchased the prior edition.
Sorta, kinda hate to do this, but... Machinery's Handbook runs in my family. It has changed very little over the years in some ways and a lot in others, mostly as advances were made. It is amazing how much of what we do, largely and routinely that has not changed.
I have three copies that I can put my hands on tonight. I thought I had four, but cannot find that one right now.
1) First Edition, 1914. My Grandfather's. Still in the cardboard box with cardboard insert that it came in. Bears the 1913 Christmas present inscription from his mother and sister.
2) Eleventh Edition, 1941. My Father's. Resides in his Gerstner toolbox, on my machining workbench.
3) MIA. My younger Brother's
4) Twenty Fifth Edition, 1996. My copy, larger format, doesn't fit in our Gerstner toolboxes any more.
I cherish the first two.
Rick
Rick, what treasures! I see why you treasure them.
I have a longtime interest in precision tools, going back decades when I inherited some machinist tools used by a machinist born in 1863. Most people are unaware that today's relatively low cost, very technical society we enjoy is largely due to the precision tool technology of the latter half of the nineteenth century and early twentieth century. The standardization and precision of that era allowed us to have truly interchangeable parts. I do not believe we would have our present computer era without the early machine shop era.
I have an irrational hope that some of the expertise of former owners of my tools might rub off on me.
Enjoy your treasures!
Ken
ps You should email Wootz. I don't think he ignores emails. I believe his worthy projects have become more time intensive that he realized. (Perhaps like so many small businesses he needs a secretary.)
Quote from: RickKrung on May 21, 2020, 03:57:33 PM
Respectfully, John, that does not answer my questions. I repeat, what is new and different that makes it worth paying again for the 5th edition:
Quote from: RickKrung on May 21, 2020, 02:27:58 PM
Any indication/information on what has been updated in the book?
It is a great resource and I follow a version of his deburring process, but what I do is not in his book. It would be good to know what is new and worth it before shelling out again/more for it. There is nothing in the description on KG's web site that I saw.
Is he offering free upgrades to those who purchased the earlier version? Didn't see that either.
Rick
I bought the 5th Edition. Appendix II is "Sharpening Protocols for Common Knife Steels". It lists protocols (and "BESS readings from real sharpening sessions") for 48 kinds of steels, subdivided into four groups: Lower-end Knives, Mainstream Knives, Quality Knives, and Wear-resistant Knives.
Some of the protocols are only three steps. Others take seven. In short, Wootz is giving out a lot of his time and research for less than the price of two Starbuck lattes.
Personally I think he's way underpriced the 5th Edition. Your mileage, of course, may vary.
Thank you mate.
People have been asking for sample sharpening protocols, many offered an extra pay for them. These protocols come from years of my sharpening business. I started with higher-end "supersteel" knives, i.e. those that require special pricey equipment to sharpen, then added mainstream and knife rental. It has been a very interesting journey full of the "aha" moments. The knife edge is a fascinating mystery.
A good portion of the book can be previewed in Google Books >> (https://books.google.com.au/books/about?id=gDflDwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y)
Video: https://youtu.be/TLfDeE7JRAA (https://youtu.be/TLfDeE7JRAA)
Testimonials: http://knifegrinders.com.au/Book_Testimonials.htm (http://knifegrinders.com.au/Book_Testimonials.htm)
Are the initial sharpening angles the optimum for the given steel?
Did the SHun steel not react well to smaller angles?
Hi wootz,
I purchased your e-book - and it is truly excellent.
One question though: you mention on page 27 that since the manufacturers of diamond paste rate them at the average diamond size, you use 0.25 micron paste to get to 0.5 micron effect. On page 23, you mention that you have settled on 1-micron diamonds as the optimum for de-rooting the burrs. Is that then diamond paste labelled 1 micron (which presumably has a small fraction of 2 micron diamonds) or do you use 0.5 micron paste to achieve that?
With your comments on page 27 the whole diamond paste terminology gets a bit confusing - or am I just misunderstanding something?
peter
Peter,
When our longtime member, Wootz (Vadim of Knife Grinders) started selling CBN wheels, he made the decision to discontinue posting on the forum to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest. This was entirely his decision, with no suggestion or encouragement from me. While I respect his choice, I miss having my friend post. His research has contributed greatly to this forum and to knife sharpening.
The best way to contact him is via email to his website. While knife sharpening has been around since before we left the cave, Vadim's cutting edge research is ongoing. I like to keep current on his research. I will use edition five until he releases edition six eventually. In my opinion, the digital edition price is a very inexpensive way to both keep current and support valuable research.
Ken
Thanks so much for the heads-up Ken. I will try Vadim on his direct email as you suggest.
Very best, peter
Just ordered mine. Years of Knowledge and Research for 7 dollars.
Thank you for sharing. Best Wishes, Tim
Well stated, Tim.
Ken
I emailed Vadim my question. He responded quickly, and I have his permission to post his answer on this forum:
My question was:
Quoteyou mention on page 27 that since the manufacturers of diamond paste rate them at the average diamond size, you use 0.25 micron paste to get to 0.5 micron effect. On page 23, you mention that you have settled on 1-micron diamonds as the optimum for de-rooting the burrs. Is that then diamond paste labelled 1 micron (which presumably has a small fraction of 2 micron diamonds) or do you use 0.5 micron paste to achieve that?
Vadim promptly answered by email:
QuoteHi Peter,
How fine an edge we actually get with diamonds, is determined by the coarser particles, even if in small proportion, because they leave the deepest and widest scratches.
We therefore use diamonds labelled 0.25-micron for the finishing cleanup, even though we had determined that diamonds 0.5-micron in size do well.
For removing the root of the burr by high-angle honing, we use diamonds labelled 1-micron (# 14,000) by the manufacturer.
We do not do the high-angle honing on every knife steel, but where we use the high-angle honing, we do not just stop at the high-angle honing with 1-micron diamonds. We do 1 more step of the finishing cleanup at the edge angle with 0.25-micron diamonds or pure chromium oxide, or the mix of them.
Cheers,
Vadim
I followed up with another question regarding paper wheels:
QuoteYou are a big proponent of the paper wheels. Is that primarily for saving time in a professional setting, or are they superior in resulting quality to the much slower LA-220 Tormek leather wheels, loaded with the same grits? For the hobbyist, a couple of additional leather wheels are a whole lot cheaper than a slow speed grinder and paper wheels 😉
Vadim's answer:
QuoteWe get near razor edges on Tormek with the 250mm felt and leather wheels.
Some even get true razor sharpness of 40-50 BESS with it, but I never could. I need paper wheels to get the edge that sharp. It is so because 10" paper wheels better match profile of the edge ground on the 250mm Tormek wheel, than the 215mm leather wheel.
But paper wheel setup is challenging and expensive. I don't think a hobbyist sharpener should spend time and money on paper wheels, if he can get sharp edges on his Tormek. First you should make the most of your Tormek.
Cheers,
Vadim
So now I need to get away from the computer and back in the shop to "hone" my sharpening skills ;D
best, peter