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Here is a link for the Norton 3X grinding wheels.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/wheels-and-wheel-dressers/62012-norton-3x-grinding-wheels

The 3X wheels have both pros and cons. They cut fast. They work wet or dry. (I use them wet with my Tormek. I also have a six inch 46 grit wheel in my dry grinder.) As you can see in the link, they are inexpensive. On the con side, eight inches is the largest diameter. In reality, these eight inch wheels work with the T8 as well as any wheel worn to eight inches (200 mm). Norton supplies a set of reducing bushings from one inch down to 5/8". I cobbled a piece of 5/8" OD plastic pipe and drilled the ID from 7/16" to 12mm or an enlarged 31/64". While not toolmaker accuracy, it is within tolerance for initial rough sharpening.

The 3X wheels are not a perfect choice; they are very workable choices at low cost. They need a finishing wheel like the SG-250 to do the whole job. They will do "the heavy lifting". You don't need both grits. I started with the 80 grit.

Ken

So if I'm understanding that item through Lee Valley comes WITH the adapter necessary to use it on the drive shaft for the Tormek?

Looking at the labeling on the Sun Tiger wheels for the Tormek, if you click on the picture it expands.  Under abrasive type, I see 'KD'.  Which I take to mean 'King Deluxe', if you look up both the 800 grit and 4000 grit King Deluxe stones both are identical in color to the wheels.  Therefore, it's likely to be just a standard King Deluxe formula to the composition.  This makes me think you also need to soak the wheel for potentially 20-30 minutes before use to get the best results.

Another interesting thought, most everyone who uses waterstones does so in a way that allows the surface build up a mud or slurry.  This helps to minimize burr formation and you would not get this effect running water in the trough.  I would be curious to try and use the stone soaked and well hydrated but WITHOUT the water placed in the trough when using it for sharpening and not just polishing bevels.  Seems it would be the best option as it should release abrasive well to keep from loading the stone.

I think using the small knife jig to clamp the handle might be your best bet.

I had just seen this jig and thought it may be the best route to go with this.  Would this also work with longer dagger type knives/swords?  This is another solution I am in need of moving forward as I've not tried working with these yet.

TWBD,

Your observation that the Sun Tiger is probably aluminum oxide is very astute. I agree. I wish you could have been with me during the weekend woodworking show when Stig Reitan was demonstrating for Tormek. Stig is a master with the Tormek. He has always sung the praises of the SG and the stone grader. He does not have glazed stone grader problems. Using the traditional Tormek technique, SG graded coarse, SG graded fine, and leather honing wheel with PA-70 honing compound, Stig consistently gets very sharp edges.

I remember when Vadim started using the Sun Tiger wheel. I believe he may have been influenced by Ionut, one of our most innovative former members. Being also influenced, I also purchased one. I used it for a while, but decided that I preferred my SG.

I think the stone grader is a good tool with the SG. I am less convinced with the SB. One of Vadim's last videos shared his thoughts about the composite honing wheel. He liked the combination of the SB graded coarse with the TT-50 and the composite honing wheel. I think that combination would give you faster cutting.

Keep us posted.

Ken

Here is a link to of my favorite Vadim videos which fits into this conversation.

https://youtu.be/tVTg0HVgoKo

The problem is not a matter of getting consistently sharp edges but ones that remain undamaged in a way that they retain sharpness quite well.  I can get consistently sharp edges straight off the 220 that will shave arm have and are burr free by simply raising the angle 1 degree and turning the wheel by hand alternating sides with very light passes for a couple minutes.  It does not take a very fine abrasive to get a sharp edge that is burr free but it helps. 

What the 1000 grit waterstone does allow for is less damage at the apex than the 220 grit creates while still allowing acceptable removal rate to be a serious stone for just sharpening a dull edge.  In my view, 220 is a shaping stone or possibly finishing if you need a good aggressive slicing edge that retains it's edge a long time.  1000 would be ideal for something that will get finished at 3000 or up or just to get the edge thin enough to where it's ready for a final ape.

So what I've worked out to date is that the SG stone works fine with most of the steels I've ground up until the bevel gets very wide after reprofiling a knife from say 25 DPS down to 12-15 DPS.  This is where it stalls in the finishing stages of shaping and the SB would be ideal for me.  Once I've finished or gotten close to finished I'd like to switch to the 1000 for cleaning up the apex damage prior to setting an apex.

"I will likely get one and use it extensively.  I am torn between this and the Sun Tiger 800 at the moment which will be the next purchase as I cannot get both currently.  You have given me quite a bit of good info here to justify giving it a try."

What do we know about the Sun Tiger 800? 800 grit. The SG is made of aluminum oxide; the SB is made of silicon carbide, designed to cut harder alloys and cut more quickly. I did a quick Internet search on the Sun Tiger, and could not find the material. You should know the material of a grinding wheel as well as the grit.

I am not saying anything negative about the Sun Tiger wheel, only suggesting that you might want to learn more before investing that much.

Ken

Vadim said the Sun Tiger worked up to a certain point which makes me believe it's Aluminum Oxide.  I don't do a lot of high vanadium steels so it should work well enough.  I really struggle to believe Tormek has not pulled their heads from the sand to realize that they really need an ACTUAL 1000 grit stone and not the glazed over version of a worn 220 that more burnishes than cuts.  I actually would and prefer to finish grind the apex by raising one degree and using the standard 220 than fatigue the steel at the apex by burnishing. 

Here's the link where I found it, can't find any dealers in America selling this stone.  It's the top stone, the brown color almost guarantees my guess is correct.

https://www.fine-tools.com/Tormek.html

I also like Wootz' idea of dressing the SB with a diamond stone.

This is clearly one of the (many) excellent ideas in Wootz's videos. It works a treat for SB, SG and SJ alike, with the proper grit obviously

The coarse side of my stone grader became glazed by the SB.

I think Wolfgang now mostly demonstrates using the edge of the SP and not the flat for coarse grading. It increases the efficiency a lot (although at the expense of control, so probably a bit more frequent truing).

I have heard Wolfgang say that the reason is if you use the flat of the grading stone then you will actually glaze over the grinding wheel surface.  This has been my experience as well and it wasn't until he said this that I was able to confirm my suspicions.  I now use the corner and get a much more aggressive cutting stone.  I actually feel the truing tool works best to resurface because, diamonds.  I don't know how much stone this wastes if you do a very light pass with it cutting very shallow. 

I have always felt that the SB-250 has been the overlooked other child of the Tormek grinding wheels. The SB was introduced around 2009 at the the same time as the 4000 grit SJ Japanese wheel. The two shared only one paragraph in the handbook and had very limited product video coverage. Of the two, the SJ has always been the glamour choice. Beginners who had hardly mastered the SG clamored to purchase the SJ, even though it was the most expensive accessory in the Tormek lineup.

The SJ has been touted in the online classes as the wheel to give knives "that extra love" of a high polish finish. There is nothing wrong with this; however, while the extra love polishing stone grabbed the best of show headlines, the workhorse SB was overlooked.

As seen in forum posts years ago, the SB had problems with glazing. I'm not sure how much of this was due to design problems and how much was due to poor technique (using too much grinding pressure). Several posts mentioned poor performance in sharpening thickness planer blades, admittedly among the more challenging tools to sharpen. I believe many users, including me, put the SB back in the box on the shelf.

The SB has had a few notable advocates, perhaps the most notable being knife expert Steve Bottorff. Steve, who has worn out many grinding wheels over the years, switched to the SB because it lasted longer.

The SJ remains the extra love glamour wheel. The new glamour choices in the workhorse category seem to be the diamond wheels, with the SB being overlooked. Even hss woodturning tool sharpening and reshaping, a logical choice for the SB, has been overshadowed by the diamond wheels.

I was encouraged to see the late Wootz mention the SB very favorably in one of his last videos. He paired the SB with the new composite polishing wheel. I believe this combination has a lot of potential. I also like Wootz' idea of dressing the SB with a diamond stone. The coarse side of my stone grader became glazed by the SB. As I said, I believe the problem may actually be in the technique rather than the product. I would like to see the SB finally receive more extensive coverage in the videos and more than half a paragraph in the handbook.

Ken

I will likely get one and use it extensively.  I am torn between this and the Sun Tiger 800 at the moment which will be the next purchase as I cannot get both currently.  You have given me quite a bit of good info here to justify giving it a try.

I have a customer request to grind a harpoon-style swedge knife to have a sharpened edge along that harpoon grind.  I am thinking I can just clamp the KJ-45 to the edge side of the knife on the primary grind bevel and use this way but am worried I am missing something here.  It seems that it should work but it's an expensive knife and I'd hate to mess up for not asking first.  Thoughts?  Anybody with experience doing this?

Picture?

If you're trying to clamp the bevel/edge side of a knife, that's the opposite way the KJ-45 works.  You'd probably have to shim it up with tape or something.  (But not sure this is what you mean?)

I did find this, not sure if it'll help:  Swedges and harpoon tips, to sharpen or not

Yes, you have the correct understanding to clamp the beveled side of the blade to grind and sharpen the swedge grind just like that thread you found.  If I cannot use the KJ-45 my only option is to freehand but I want to make sure it turns out nice in the end. 

I have a customer request to grind a harpoon-style swedge knife to have a sharpened edge along that harpoon grind.  I am thinking I can just clamp the KJ-45 to the edge side of the knife on the primary grind bevel and use this way but am worried I am missing something here.  It seems that it should work but it's an expensive knife and I'd hate to mess up for not asking first.  Thoughts?  Anybody with experience doing this?

Good preliminary testing, Wootz.

I really did not use my Tiger wheel enough to fairly comment. At the time, I was sharpening primarily chisels. Being 800 grit, it did not seem to cut as quickly as the SG graded coarse. That's understandable.

In considering the SG-250, it is only fair to remember that until November of 2008, the SG was the only grindstone for the Tormek. It was expected to work with all of the Tormek jigs and different kind of steel.It was expected to sharpen planer blades, including removing nicks. It was expected to reshape and sharpen turning tools, both carbon and high speed steel. It was expected so sharpen tools sized from small carving tools to axes. In conjunction with the leather honing wheel, it was expected to handle the whols sharpening process from grinding through honing and polishing. No dry grinding wheel, bench stone or sanding belt is expected to do so much.

In truth, the SG was not always a speedster at all of these things. Howbever, it did do them. It has also been expected to be long lasting. That's a tall order for any grinding wheel.

I am not surprised that the 800 grit wheel seems a useful adjunct for the Tormek. I have found the two Norton 3X wheels (46 and 80 grit) useful additions. Neither of the 3x wheels will ever be my general purpose wheel. They do help when I have a lot of grinding to do.

The SG grinding wheels are the old reliables which do most of my sharpening.

Ken

What are the Norton wheels you describe here that work with the Tormek?  These may be the ticket for me to quickly reprofile edges for customers.

I have all 6 grindstones. What are you trying to sharpen?

I don't believe it's so much the steels I am grinding being the problem but moreso the fact that the knives are heavily overbuilt outdoor knives that customers send me and the edges are very thick behind the edge from the factory.  This means that early on in the process of reprofiling to a lower edge angle the stone cuts freely but as the bevel width gets wider and closer to being finished the grinding stalls to the point of seeming to barely proceed without using excess pressure.  Therefore it does seem that the Blackstone would keep cutting when the standard stone has stalled, according to their literature on the website.

I'm beginning to really think I need this stone to add with the standard that came with the T8.  I've used this for quite some time and really found that while I don't grind much if any High Speed Steel, the standard stone can be quite slow especially on tougher steels that have low grindability as the edge bevel width gets wider.  Anybody else here using this Blackstone have anything to report before I take the plunge.  It's costly enough that I don't want to regret getting it but I can't see myself being anything but delighted to work more efficiently to produce my work.

That's pretty much what I assumed, I don't see any sensitive electronics being in this circuit and don't recall seeing anything in the manual about needing a surge protector.  I will take your advice and unplug between sessions, we live in the lightning capital of the world here.

Very cool to see the Tormek... in a propaganda video for sheeple.

Sparks are fake. They have to be smart enough to know that you would need eye protection for that job without using water.

Ya, I've had a piece of metal in my eye extracted with a needle.

I accidentally did this on my Tormek when I forgot to raise the water trough.  I don't know that there's enough RPM's on this machine to really be likely to have that result here.  It was a bit of an 'oh s*&^' moment where it took a second to realize why my wheel was loading so quickly lol.

Seems as though a surge protector would be unnecessary for this grinder but wanted to be certain of this.  Anybody able to say for certain one way or the other?