Dear fellow Tormekers,
I just want to share my attempt of adding DROs to the machine. It's still kind of beta-testing - but so far I'm very happy with the results.
I had thought about DROs for a while, when I found some with very reasonable prices. I ordered one just to confirm it would do the trick.
This is how it looks now:
IMG_20230411_181826.jpg
I wanted something that could remain mounted but wouldn't get in the way somehow. So I printed some hinge and added a clip for the usb. After some trial-and-error it works really well. It can be folded back (and even down) easily.
(As you can never know the whole device can be taken out from the hinge, it's just press fit.)
The clip coupling, after being reinstalled, gives the same values as it had before. It's repeatable and reliable and precise enough.
IMG_20230411_162725.jpg
Because it worked so well, I added another one on the FVB. Maybe I'll change the fixture so that it can be folded down the other way, but I've had no problems yet. (And it can always be removed with one hand, if really needed)
IMG_20230411_181857.jpg
One thing to keep in mind is that you won't be able to move the readout to a real zero position. Of course there is the hinge and the housing, so you'll have to work with an offset. I calibrate the system by setting the USB to 10cm with a height gauge, then set the DRO to zero. Now I just had to add that offset in the calculator - using TormekCalc made that easy. Recalibration is usually only needed if you change the batteries. (For some reason the DRO notices movements even when it's switched off.)
Well, I know that this may seem a very over-engineered way of doing things. ::) Anyway, I enjoyed the challenge and the tinkering. And now I have to admit I don't really miss all that fiddling with gauges and calipers while sharpening.
Other thoughts and observations:
- I never turn the machine around, if you do, that might be something to consider as there are some additional wires
- The DROs are Rear:20cm/8", for the FVB: 15cm/6" are more than sufficient
- Both of the DROs were less than 80 $, the plastic parts were 3d-printed as needed.
- the attachment of the hinge required two M3-threads in the zinc housing (might be an issue with warranty), maybe shouldn't be done carelessly.
I hope the concept is fairly comprehensible, if not, please feel free to ask.
Regards,
Mike
Wow, that looks awesome Micha!
Yup, awesome indeed. It looks like it does the job *and* is practical enough that it doesn't interfere with the sharpening process. Very nice !
Nice work, :)
Well done, Mike! Apparently there can be new things under the sun. Many years ago, our member Grepper posted a photoshopped photo of a Tormek with a digital control panel. Grepper did this as a joke. You have made the joke useful and added a whole new dimension to precision angle control.
Ken
Looks good. (I'd second what you suggested though... switch the FVB one to the other side.)
Very interesting. I love and depend wholly on DROs, on my metal lathe and vertical knee mill, so I can fully appreciate their use on a Tormek. However, since I use only the distance from the USB to the wheel surface, it is irrelevant for how I work.
Just curious, you say you never turn your machine around. It appears set up for use from the front rather than the rear, or is that just perspective for the photos? Displays on the units themselves are facing rearward, but the remote displays on the cabinet behind make it appear otherwise.
I only use mine from the front and never turn it around. I sit while sharpening.
Rick
Thanks for your interest and the kind words, guys.
@tgbto: Yes, there wasn't any interference so far. But if some problem occured, it could be avoided by just pulling out the DRO from the hinge and put it back in place afterwards. (Values are still precise enough after doing so)
@Ken: Do you happen to have that picture around? I'd love to see it :)
@cbw: I'll probably add a little platform protruding the FVB and just mount it in the opposite direction. Then it should fold down 180°, however, otherwise it could get in MY way :). BTW: Thanks for adding the USB height calculator in calcapp :D !
@Rick: You're right, I always use the machine from the front. Machine is rather high, so I can stand somewhat comfortably. The linear scales don't have a display on the units themselves. Here is an example (https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Readout-0-150mm-Accurate-Machines/dp/B089ZSG84J?th=1), identical in construction and with the same parts supplied.
Here's mine from the opposite perspective:
IMG_20230412_164649.jpg
So there are just two completely independent displays on a wire ;). I made a frame which keeps them in place and allows for decent readability:
IMG_20230412_164545.jpg
Adding another point to thoughts and observations, which I forgot to mention:
- the attachment of the hinge required two M3-threads in the zinc housing (might be an issue with warranty), maybe shouldn't be done carelessly.
(Guess I'll add that in the first post, too.)
Regards,
Mike
Looks very cool. Forgive my ignorance, but does this setup actually move the USB to the set height, or is it just displaying the set height digitally?
It's just an alternative method to measure distances. You can still move the USB by hand or by the EzyLock nut, respectively. There is no considerable resistance in sliding that black sensor box along the rail.
The only advantage is that you don't have to operate rulers or calipers while setting the USB height, it's a bit more hands-free.
Now adding a stepper motor will be a logical next step ;D ;D
Quote from: micha on April 12, 2023, 10:27:37 PMIt's just an alternative method to measure distances. You can still move the USB by hand or by the EzyLock nut, respectively. There is no considerable resistance in sliding that black sensor box along the rail.
The only advantage is that you don't have to operate rulers or calipers while setting the USB height, it's a bit more hands-free.
Now adding a stepper motor will be a logical next step ;D ;D
That's what I'm talkin' about. ;)
Now let's get really fancy. Put a sensor on the USB to measure the progress across and have the stepper motor adjust the height as you move the jig across the bar to maintain a consistent angle with curved blades. Programmable curves!
Might be a new rabbit hole... but we like those, don't we ;D ;D
:) :)
Ken
No comment on the focus of the thread here but cannot help but notice that your grinding wheel is severely loaded with steel. I would never let my stone end up that way and frequently dress the wheel to remove this as it occurs. You'll get more burnishing than cutting in the state pictured, you want the stone to cut freely and this requires frequent regrading unless you are using high enough pressures in grinding to actually cause the stone to release abrasive to refresh the surface.
Chris,
I basically agree, stones should be kept in good shape.
But in that picture, well, that's just how the SJ-250 looks after polishing the edges of 2 carbon steel chef knives. I use to clean the Japanese stone with a 1000 grit diamond plate rather than often trueing it.
I agree with micha, the SJ stone can get very dirty, or at least dirty looking. I use black marker on all my bevels, even with the SJ and it can get very dirty looking. I hardly ever true it, rather use Sabitoru Rust Erasers to clean the dirt, which are very effective and "condition" the surface with a 1000 grit diamond plate as needed.
Dirty SJ before cleaning.
Restored SJ After Use 1 04-07-19 640.JPG
Sabitoru Rust Erasers for cleaning.
Sabitoru Stone Cleaning.jpg
SJ cleaned using the Sabitoru REs.
Restored SJ After Use 2 04-07-19 640.JPG
Rick
I see, didn't realize that wasn't the standard grindstone but it makes sense now as the finer waterstones do tend to load a lot in general.
I also don't worry about this on my SJ-250 grindstone.
Quote from: RichColvin on April 16, 2023, 03:56:14 PMI also don't worry about this on my SJ-250 grindstone.
It's not exactly a problem, in that you will still get abrasion and the knife doesn't explode. People do what amounts to this all the time on the leather wheel and strops in general. There is no way to clean either so what you end up with is an abrasive surface that is highly polluted with embedded metal particles.
What essentially happens is the steel particles do not cut the tool's steel and this causes burnishing rather than a clean cut. Burnishing is not something that works well in general, especially on tougher to grind and harder steels. It will lead to diminished edge retention in most all cases and essentially cancels out any benefits you might see from using a higher quality steel compared to a cheaper lesser quality grade of steel.
I agree that cleaner is better, but I don't think it's accurate to say that a blackened honing wheel or strop is just burnishing -- provided you continually refresh the honing compound. After all, it's the abrasives in the compound that are doing the cutting.
Quote from: 3D Anvil on April 17, 2023, 06:30:15 AMI agree that cleaner is better, but I don't think it's accurate to say that a blackened honing wheel or strop is just burnishing -- provided you continually refresh the honing compound. After all, it's the abrasives in the compound that are doing the cutting.
It's not that I would say it's purely burnishing but rather a mix of cutting and burnishing. Any amount of burnishing is going to be detrimental in practice. If you leave the SJ-250 in the blackened state then you could say the same of it, that it's doing both. This can be easily felt on a bench stone when it loads as it tending to feel quite different in use.
One can be easily cleaned and brought back to pure cutting quite easily (wheel) and the other simply cannot short of replacing it and starting over (strop). If it were a choice between the wheel and stropping for me, that's an easy decision. I will actually use the SG-250 to remove burrs and hone, I have never even loaded the leather wheel that came with my Tormek and it stays off the machine permanently.
Here's a bit of trivia... Wicked Edge did some testing a few years back, and even new leather with compound had a burnishing effect (affect?) on the edge. (Search their forum (https://knife.wickededgeusa.com/) for burnishing, and you'll find some of the posts.)
Well done Micha! Your innovations seemed to have sparked a discussion on the effects of dirty wheels!
Maybe if I post some pictures of how I take bar to stone measurements I will get some replies about why I can't seem to use a rock hard wheel effectively.
Tee hee!
Quote from: micha on April 11, 2023, 11:56:57 PMDear fellow Tormekers,
I just want to share my attempt of adding DROs to the machine. It's still kind of beta-testing - but so far I'm very happy with the results.
Hi micha
I like your solution- Maybe we can work together. Your solution together with my Angle setter. And an electric stepper motor that automatically sets the USB height according to the selected angle. Then we can make an app for the phone that controls everything. ;D ;D
Quote from: Perra on April 20, 2023, 07:49:31 PM...
Now I'm looking for a new rabbit hole... ;D ;D
Quote from: Perra on April 26, 2023, 11:16:34 AMHi micha
I like your solution- Maybe we can work together....
Looks like you found it! ;) ;D
Quote from: Perra on April 26, 2023, 11:16:34 AMThen we can make an app for the phone that controls everything. ;D ;D
Of course! Including live monitoring, automatic wheel changing, cleaning and maintenance. :D ;D
There are still many rabbit holes in Tormek Wonderland...(waiting for their discovery by real march hares like us) :o :)