Uneven.jpg
Hello everyone,
I decided to use a diamond wheels. DC-250, DF-250 was fine. But DE-250 has some problems. I found uneven scratch pattern after using DE-250. Of course I sent this image to Tormek. But umfortunately, they didn't understand what the problem was.
That wasn't the only problem.
Wobbling.
I trust Tormek's quality control very much and have never been disappointed. Except for the diamond wheels. I hope the quality of the diamond wheels improves.
Maybe the uneven scratch pattern is due to the diamond break-in not having happened yet. I found this effect to be most noticeable on the DE, as the scratch marks left byt the protruding diamonds would stand out.
Quote from: tgbto on June 19, 2023, 08:56:45 AMMaybe the uneven scratch pattern is due to the diamond break-in not having happened yet. I found this effect to be most noticeable on the DE, as the scratch marks left byt the protruding diamonds would stand out.
I used a CBN wheel #1000 before, but there was no uneven pattern.
Sharpco,
I have followed your posts and videos for many years. I know that you are an experienced and organized sharpener. To investigate the situation with your DE-250, we need to answer several questions. I ask these questions only to discover the cause of this difficulty, not to be critical. I trust Tormek; however, I believe in the saying, "trust, but verify".
Tgbto asks a good question. Have you used this diamond wheel enough to get beyond the break in period?
Are you using the ACC solution which Tormek recommends?
Is the photo you include taken before using the leather honing wheel?
I place more value on impressions formed over longer use than those made initially. Do all the tools and knives you have sharpened with your DE-250 show the same scratch pattern?
Have you sharpened this same knife in the past with your SG-250 graded fine, followed by your leather honing wheel with PA-70? How does the DE-250 scratch pattern compare with the SG-250/PA-70 scratch pattern?
Are you using very light grinding pressure?
If you resharpen the same knife with clean water and ACC solution, is the scratch pattern the same?
Answers to these questions should lower the number of possible causes and help zero in on the problem.
I have corresponded frequently with Tormek support. I have found them quite helpful. I also realize that the support staff have other responsibilities and that they work business hours.
I hope we will pursue your question and answer it completely, wherever it leads.
Ken
Quote from: Sharpco on June 20, 2023, 12:19:55 PMI used a CBN wheel #1000 before, but there was no uneven pattern.
I don't know for a CBN, I don't own any. But for the DE, I'm pretty positive I needed about a dozen knives to get a nice finish.
I've used both diamond wheels and diamond stones and on other systems as well. There is definitely and brak-in period before they smooth out and give a more even scratch pattern. Of course, using lite pressure on the last passes help as well. My understanding is that the diamonds pile up on each other in some places and those must be knocked down.
Tormek acknowledged the issue(wobble) and agreed to replace it. I had a great experience with the DC-250 and DF-250, so I'm looking forward to the new DE-250.
Sharpco,
I am pleased, but not surprised, that Tormek is providing excellent service.
Incidentally, was your wheel broken in for the photo?
Ken
PS Your knife showed the excellent bevel control I would expect from your work.
Well done!
Quote from: Ken S on June 22, 2023, 07:20:03 PMSharpco,
I am pleased, but not surprised, that Tormek is providing excellent service.
Incidentally, was your wheel broken in for the photo?
Ken
PS Your knife showed the excellent bevel control I would expect from your work.
Well done!
Hello Ken,
Thank you.
"Break in" was not matter. I think that the diamond wheel should make uniform scratch pattern even at new.
An interesting thought. Imagine that we were the decision at Tormek. Every production decision is a balance between cost incurred and quality increased. Some decisions seem logical, with long lasting benefits. Tormek's decision in 2006 to switch from regular steel to stainless for the shaft and "wet side" parts is one of those decisions. Yes, this increased the unit's cost. However, the user benefitted from the non rusting shaft for the life of the product, a substantial benefit. (Many of the cheaper clones have still not made the switch. The argument that purchasing replacement shafts is still less expensive than a Tormek seems lame to me.)
Breaking in new diamond wheels at the factory seems like an extra step (extra cost) step which would benefit users for only a very short initial period. Given the choice between purchasing standard wheels or, at higher cost, wheels which were broken in at the factory, how many of us would pay more for the factory to make the extra step we could easily perform ourselves?
I have no idea what this extra cost might be. I have noticed many questions from users who don't seem to be bothered by spending a thousand US dollars for a set of superabrasive wheels (either diamond or CBN) and complain about the much smaller cost of an anticorrosion agent to protect these expensive wheels.
As sharpeners, how often do we unbox knives and tools which are already at maximum sharpness? How many tools have the mill marks removed at the factory?
I am not defending this practice, only saying that this is an industry problem, not a Tormek problem.
Ken