One of the exciting things I saw last week during my visit to Tormek in Sweden was the new MB-102 Multibase. The official launch date is this morning, September fourth. This new Multibase combines the full adjustability of theMB-100 with being able to work vertically using the horizontal (grinding away) sleeves. One amazing feature of this new Multibase is that it combines these two features for around the same cost as just the original Multibase.
Here is the information sheet from Tormek as well as a link to the instruction sheet:
https://tormek.com/en/products/accessories/mb-102-multi-base
https://tormek.com/download/18.462ab74e188bd9ef5f07d4f5/1692630821038/Instruction%20MB-102.pdf
Ken
If the price point is similar to that of the MB-100, we have a very enticing Tormek FVB and MB-100 2-in-1 package... for those not yet equipped with both yet ^^
Very interesting. Tormek does watch and listen. Tormek has very cleverly incorporated the function of the FVB into the Multibase. Curious how they have taken a non-Tormek concept and incorporated it into one of their jigs. It would be very enticing if I didn't already have both.
"It also converts the horizontal mounts to vertical, for easier access when sharpening knives edge trailing, and for guided honing using knife jigs"
New MB-102_Multi_Base.jpg
Quote from: Ken S on September 04, 2023, 12:17:35 PMOne of the exciting things I saw last week during my visit to Tormek in Sweden was the new MB-102 Multibase.
...
And Calcapp (https://connect.calcapp.net/?app=qq0pg0#/) will work with it. ;)
All very fine but I just bought the old model :'(
John,
I understand your frustration. I would feel the same way. Last Wednesday afternoon, I sat in on the innovation team meeting at Tormek headquarters. This confirmed my belief that innovation is ongoing with Tormek. Tormek, like any other business, has hurdles to overcome with innovation. The process is ongoing and continuous.
During part of our tour, we saw the machined zinc frames for the T8. Like your new MB-100, the machined zinc frames of the T8 (and T4) make the precision of the T8 superior to my faithful T7. If I wished, I could sell my T7 for at least almost the price I paid for it. I have no intention of selling it. Both my T7 and your new MB-100 are just as capable now as ever. Capability has just moved on.
Unlike many products, we can still be using our MB-100s and T7s twenty years from now. By that time, the products which follow the T8 and MB-102 will still be making sharp edges, but will also be considered out of date.
Based on my impression of the innovation team, be prepared to see more innovations. Enjoy the progress!
Ken
Just an afterthought : I am curious as to how the squareness of the MB-102 relative to the wheel axis will be ensured when using it as a FVB... It seems about as important when grinding edge trailing as it is edge-leading.
Today the USB is made vertical (the way I understand it) by pressing down on top of the support leg with the MicroAdjust nut. As there is no MicroAdjust nut on the MB-102, how will it be done ? The currrent FVB implementations with a solid block of metal use the casing as a reference. Maybe using the legs of the USB when mounted in the MB-102 ? Might be easier with the taller US-430 ? I see no reference to this in the manual...
Any thoughts ?
I have been looking at purchasing 2 MB-100's to get FVB, but now 1 MB-102 will do it. I feel a Christmas present is in my future.
Quote from: tgbto on September 05, 2023, 04:25:42 PMJust an afterthought : I am curious as to how the squareness of the MB-102 relative to the wheel axis will be ensured when using it as a FVB... It seems about as important when grinding edge trailing as it is edge-leading.
Today the USB is made vertical (the way I understand it) by pressing down on top of the support leg with the MicroAdjust nut. As there is no MicroAdjust nut on the MB-102, how will it be done ? The currrent FVB implementations with a solid block of metal use the casing as a reference. Maybe using the legs of the USB when mounted in the MB-102 ? Might be easier with the taller US-430 ? I see no reference to this in the manual...
Any thoughts ?
I would think it would be no different than using a current FVB in the "Extended" position, and unless the MB-102 has a lot of play, (and the current one doesn't appear to) it shouldn't be an issue. One could always come up with a method to improve accuracy if needed I suppose, (like marking the legs?)
Quote from: GeoBoy on September 05, 2023, 04:58:32 PMI have been looking at purchasing 2 MB-100's to get FVB, but now 1 MB-102 will do it. I feel a Christmas present is in my future.
I'm still waiting to see any prices for the new jig but if you only want an FVB and have no diamond wheels like me (i.e. no need to grind on side of wheel) then I imagine it will be cheaper just to get an FVB from Shleifjunkies or one of the other makers.
Of course, if one has diamond wheels this jig could be pretty useful. Let's see what the cost is...
Danny
Samuel, the Tormek CEO, just sent me a PM with this pricing information:
"If you would like to add pricing to the discussion on the new Multi Base here they are:
US MAP: $105
EURO COUNTRIES Recommended retail price EXCL.VAT: €73,50
/Samuel"
Ken
well, if that is really the price, it is really more or less the same as the MB100 jig...
Dan,
That really is the price.
Ken
"If you would like to add pricing to the discussion on the new Multi Base here they are:
US MAP: $105
Jingle bells, jingle bells,..
This is perfect timing, I was just looking at buying the original and now it's perfect. The question is when can I find one for sale? I still don't see any at my sharpening dealers I frequent.
Realistically, I think mid October is an optimistic best guess, at least in the US. I suggest contacting your dealer and asking about pre ordering.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on September 05, 2023, 03:21:25 PMI understand your frustration.
Not really. Actually happy with what I have. No use *really* crying over spilt milk :)
Quote from: JohnHancock on September 07, 2023, 01:45:18 AMQuote from: Ken S on September 05, 2023, 03:21:25 PMI understand your frustration.
Not really. Actually happy with what I have. No use *really* crying over spilt milk :)
Plus you can use your MB-100 in conjunction with your FVB! Yay!
Youtube Tormek Live Sharpening Class
Swedish: MB-102 Multifäste - Utvecklad knivslipning och slipa plan slipfas | Del 20 | Tormek slipskola live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4MJDoog5gU
English: MB-102 Multi Base - Enhanced Knife Sharpening & Flat Bevels | Part 20 | Tormek Live Sharpening Class https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNupoAP5gAU
Quote from: tgbto on September 05, 2023, 04:25:42 PMJust an afterthought : I am curious as to how the squareness of the MB-102 relative to the wheel axis will be ensured when using it as a FVB... It seems about as important when grinding edge trailing as it is edge-leading.
Today the USB is made vertical (the way I understand it) by pressing down on top of the support leg with the MicroAdjust nut. As there is no MicroAdjust nut on the MB-102, how will it be done ? The currrent FVB implementations with a solid block of metal use the casing as a reference. Maybe using the legs of the USB when mounted in the MB-102 ? Might be easier with the taller US-430 ? I see no reference to this in the manual...
Any thoughts ?
Based on the clip of the upcoming class, it looks like they're doing what you suggested...
Screenshot 2023-09-08 144753.jpg
Let's examine this thread piece by piece.
It is unfortunate financially for anyone who already has a MB-100 or an FVB. For anyone who "just" ordered either, it is possible that the transaction may be in a return allowable time period. If not, either the MB-100 or the FVB is just as functionable as when purchased. They can still work as desired or can probably be sold for close to new price.
In my opinion, the design of the MB-102 is very clever. It combines two functions for approximately the cost of either one. I would choose he MB-102 over purchasing either of the single function tools. For no more than the cost of either single function tools, you can get both in one tool. It seems like future need protection for no extra cost.
I don't understand the technical questions about alignment accuracy. I do have faith that Tormek would not release any new products without extensive testing and a solid belief that the product would perform as designed. I hold Tormek in very high regard, although I do not give them a free pass.
I will withhold my final opinion about the MB-102 until after I have an extensive chance to use it.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on September 09, 2023, 05:20:39 PMI don't understand the technical questions about alignment accuracy.
Well if you look at the pic in @cbwx34's post, that should help. It looks like the legs of the USB are used to ensure proper alignment.
Now I apologize if my poor mastery of english implied that I was saying the FVB-102 would be hard to align properly. English is a second language to me. I was merely stating two facts : No MicroAdjust nut (so it won't align the same way the USB does) and no indication on how to align it in the manual (as far as I could see).
I think the (many) technical questions in this forum have also been useful to Tormek and have allowed them to improve their products, as exemplified precisely by this MB-102. If accuracy wasn't a fair question to ask, there would be no need for extra holes in the MB-102 or for a new angle setting tool, or probably for a jig altogether.
Quote from: tgbto on September 11, 2023, 08:49:26 AM...
Now I apologize if my poor mastery of english implied that I was saying the FVB-102 would be hard to align properly. English is a second language to me. I was merely stating two facts : No MicroAdjust nut (so it won't align the same way the USB does) and no indication on how to align it in the manual (as far as I could see).
...
Unlike the vertical position, I think gravity will pretty much center/align the horizontal position, will it not? I don't see any issue with the current MB-100, so a need to have instructions isn't necessary, as far as I can tell anyway. The vertical support needs it because it can rock back and forth (and in reality it's more for some woodworking tools, not really needed for knives.)
In fact, having the vertical support rub against the machine... probably not ideal, it could cause the vertical support to "hang", tilt, etc.
TGB,
I look at the technical questions on this forum the same way I look at the space program. I have no plans to go into space; however, I believe the knowledge we have gained from the space program has benefitted the car I drive. My humble kenjig has most certainly benefitted from the earlier forum questioning of Dutchman's grinding tables. I still do not fully understand Dutchman's math, although I have learned enough to have faith in it. We have all benefited from Dutchman's pioneering work, as I believe we will from today's technical questions. I may not fully understand them; however, that does not mean that I do not see value for all of us in them.
Ken
Quote from: cbwx34 on September 11, 2023, 01:59:57 PMUnlike the vertical position, I think gravity will pretty much center/align the horizontal position, will it not?
I was referring to the misalignment that could have occured if the distance to the horizontal sleeves along one of the legs was different from that along the other leg.
QuoteI don't see any issue with the current MB-100, so a need to have instructions isn't necessary, as far as I can tell anyway. The vertical support needs it because it can rock back and forth (and in reality it's more for some woodworking tools, not really needed for knives.)
The way I understood it (and that might be completely wrong) is that pressing down on the MicroAdjust nut will ensure to a reasonable degree of confidence that the legs are perpendicular to the shaft (and therefore the USB bar parallel to the shaft). So when you true the stone you're not actually grinding a cone, and even if you are, your support will be parallel to the stone because you always have the same reference surface. How much of an impact that has though...
FWIW, if you already own an MB-100, (or don't need all the features) Rich (Colvin Tools) is having a sale on his FVB (https://colvintools.com/Tormek-FVB.html). ;)
Just for info for anyone interested...
I have found the MB-102 available soon online here in Europe for 89 euros. Very good price for a FVB and extra functionality for those who may need it.
Danny
Well, I bit the bullet and bought an MB-102. I wasn't much interested at first because I already have an MB-100 and a shop-made FVB. However, I use the FVB on my bench grinder and belt grinder, so I really need three. I don't use the belt grinder much, but do use the bench grinder a fair bit, which has an 8" dia., 80 grit CBN on it (not shown in pic below). Thus, two FVBs should work fairly well.
I'm amused by the musings about alignment accuracy. My thought is that it will be self aligning with the first locking knob being secured. This will force that shaft into the bottom of the USB sleeve and cause it to be fairly well aligned with the centerline of the USB sleeve, which hopefully and expectantly, should be machined parallel and/or perpendicular with the machine grinding wheel shaft. No guarantee of that, but by assumption, we all rely on this for both sets of USB sleeves. So, my though is to tighten one knob securely and then the other and proceed with remaining steps.
It would be easy to check the assumption of squareness by examining the gap between a USB set very close to a diamond wheel, which itself is presumed to have been machined (and coated) square. Not sure it can be assumed that a just-trued grinding wheel would be, as it is likely trued in whatever plane in which the vertical USB is set.
Rick
*NEW TO THE FORUM*
this may be on the froum somehwere, but am wondering if the MB-102 can be used to sharpen Helle knives on the flat side of the stone?
any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Quote from: flyexpert on December 06, 2023, 06:26:43 PM...
this may be on the froum somehwere, but am wondering if the MB-102 can be used to sharpen Helle knives on the flat side of the stone?
any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Not sure if you mean the brand "Helle" and if you're asking about sharpening a Scandi grind? If so, you might find these threads of interest...
Scandi sharpening (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4780.0)
Scandi grind - mystery revealed (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3239.0)
How to sharpen scandinavian grinds with the Tormek. (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,3680.0.html)
(If not, nevermind) :)
It is possible to sharpen a knife on the side of the wheel, if that's what you're asking. (But if you read the above threads, you may not want/need to.)
You may also want to look at this Tormek video (starting at 37:44)...
MB-102 Multi Base - Enhanced Knife Sharpening & Flat Bevels | Part 20 | Tormek Live Sharpening Class (https://www.youtube.com/live/uNupoAP5gAU?si=cpmmdZY2nflbRZ_n&t=2264)
... it also shows sharpening on the side (around 41:00).