Messages

I was concerned about the effects of the AC additive on the SG stones when I eventually buy some diamond stones. To avoid the cross contamination, I'm going to buy another water tray and keep the systems separate. This might be overkill, but the cost of a second tray is minimal.

So now you've got me thinking about how to use the SE-77 for non-cambered, square edges like chisels.  My approach has been to use the jig with the two adjustment knobs tightened firm, so it won't allow any angular deviation.  The challenge with this technique is the initial setting of the two knobs... the index mark on the jig isn't nearly fine enough (for me) to hit dead square on first (or second, or third) try.

Now you've got me thinking that another approach might be to leave the adjustment knobs a touch loose to allow for some play, and just grind for square based on feel / muscle memory.

Does that make sense? How to you guys do it?

Although it took me a few attempts to figure it out, I like the SE-77 jig for establishing the primary bevel on my chisels and plane irons.  Here is my procedure for establishing a 25-degree bevel on a chisel using the T8 and the SE-77.

1.  Set the USB 9mm above the grinding wheel.  I use a wooden spacer and adjust the height of the USB until it just contacts the spacer that is resting on the wheel.  This assumes the wheel and USB are parallel, but minor differences can be eliminated during the grind since the SE-77 can be adjusted.

2.  For the 25-degree bevel, I set the projection of the chisel to 38mm from the front edge of the SE-77.

3.  Completely blacken the bevel area with a permanent marker so any fresh grinds are readily visible.  This will be important to determine the direction to rotate the adjustment knobs to ensure a square grind.

4.  Start with the SE-77 index marks aligned and the adjustment knobs tightened.  I always keep all of the knobs tightened.

5.  Make one or two passes on the wheel and inspect the quality of the grind.  If you are lucky, the fresh grind will be uniform across the width of the chisel.  If not, make small adjustments with the two small knobs.  I loosen one about an eighth of a turn and tighten the other until it is snug.  You can blacken the bevel area again between adjustments as required to see the effects of the changes.

Trial and error will tell you which knobs to loosen to square the chisel in the jig, but it's important to do this early in the process while only a little area of metal is being removed. 

The next time I grind a chisel, I'll document the process and post the images.

Leaving a .5mm blunt edge is a wise precaution with a high speed dry grinder. That last very thin .5mm is where the edge is most likely to overheat. With the water cooled Tormek, this precaution is unnecessary.

I've never used a high speed grinder for my chisels because I was never good enough to judge when to quench in order to retain the hardness.  My few trial and error efforts were not good and resulted in discolored edges, much to the dismay of my instructors.  Prior to the Tormek, I created the primary bevel using a honing guide on various grades of paper on a flat glass or granite surface.  This was especially time consuming when reconditioning used chisels or plane irons with edges that had been abused and had to have fresh metal on the cutting edge.  The Tormek reduced this time considerably and was well worth the purchase.

I stop at the 0.5mm edge with the Tormek not because of heat, but because there is no return on time investment in taking the primary bevel to the edge.  I'm going to put two more steeper angles on it anyway, and doing this with stones is much faster for me.  If the edge is chipped, or otherwise not square, then I will continue to the edge with the Tormek.

I think if you ask five people how to sharpen chisels and plane irons, you'll receive eight answers...and they are all correct if the results work for the user.  For fine woodworking, such as dovetails, I would never use the Tormek to sharpen my chisels or plane irons, but might use it to sharpen a chisel used for carpentry.  I use the Tormek to establish the primary bevel angle, but then use the Lie-Nielsen honing guide on either water stones or DMT diamond plates for the secondary bevel and honing bevel.

The first 25-degree primary bevel will usually last seven to eight sharpenings before I have to go back to the Tormek and re-grind.  Each touch-up widens the secondary bevel a bit, and this adds to the amount of time on the stones. The slight hollow grind from the Tormek ensures I'm not wasting time sharpening and honing the part of the chisel that doesn't do any cutting.

All of my bench chisels are Lie-Nielsen and Blue Spruce, and they get at 25-degree primary bevel using the Tormek.  The exact amount isn't important, since I put all of my effort on the next operations.  When grinding on the Tormek, I'll leave the final 0.5mm of the edge since I'm going to address that part on the stones.  A Sharpie (or any permanent marker) on the bevel gives me a clear indication of the grinding process and when to stop.

The next operations are on the stones, starting with the 800-grit water stone.  I set the projection of the chisel at 30mm, which gives me a 30-degree bevel with respect to the back of the chisel.  A few swipes on the stone are all that is required for a wire edge to form for a fresh grind.  The number of swipes increases with each sharpening, and when I get to the point where it takes 20 to 25 swipes for the edge to form, it's time for a fresh grind.  By that time, the 30-dgree secondary bevel is large and dominates the cutting edge.

I then change the projection to 25mm for a 35-degree bevel for the honing.  I use a 10,000 grit water stone and it takes no more than four swipes for the wire edge to fall off.  One swipe on the back of the chisel holding it flat against the stone, and I'm done.  The four swipes on the honing is constant during the touch-ups, and I don't remember ever having to do more.

I don't strop my chisels and have never seen a reason to do this.  However, others recommend touching up only by stropping.  My chisels are razor sharp (maybe sharper  ) and the A2 steel at RC60 takes a beating while retaining an edge for a long time.  I have a couple of new Two Cherries chisels that seem to lose an edge just by moving through air.  I can use them on ash for a couple of minutes before the edge is gone, while the LN and BS chisels last much longer.

Find the rhythm and process that works for you and have fun.

Hell of a lot of money to be broken out of the box.

I agree and would take Ken's advice about contacting Tormek customer support.  If you bought it at a brick and mortar store, I would not hesitate to take it back.

I used a friend's T7 two weeks ago, and his makes a similar annoying buzzing sound.  In his case it was the water tray.  The fix was a small bungee cord attached to the lip of the tray with the other end attached under the table.  The bungee cord put just enough force on the water tray to completely remove the vibration and noise.  This was not the ideal solution, but was a suitable work around that eliminated having to return the unit to the store (about a four hour round trip).

Ken,

The amount of initial effort on the back of the chisels and plane blades might have been overkill, but it was a one-time task and I doubt I will ever touch the backs again.  However, now I know each chisel and blade is as flat as possible, but more importantly, there are no bellies in the surface (a hollow would be desirable).

With the 25-degree hollow grind on the bevel edge, my subsequent sharpening of the chisels is about one minute, with most of that setting the projection in the honing guide for both bevels.  One or two passes on the 800-grit water stone to raise a wire edge, and then two passes on the 10,000 grit stone to hone and remove the wire edge.  Sharpening the plane blade takes more time due to the tasks to remove, install, and set the blade, but the sharpening portion is the same as the bench chisels.

My secondary intent was to establish a repeatable process that was quick and would not adversely affect work flow.  As you stated, I do not go to this effort on my fore and scrub planes.  As long as they remove lots of wood with each pass, I am happy.  However, my low angle jack planes and Number 7 jointer get the full treatment.

For my plane blades (and chisels), the Tormek is only one part of the sharpening process.  I use flat stones and a honing guide for the fine work.

In each case, I establish a 25-degree hollow grind primary bevel using the Tormek, and then go to the 800-grit flat stone for the 33-degree secondary bevel and the 10,000 grit flat stone for the 35-degree honing bevel.  The secondary and honing bevels take only a few passes on the flat stones, then I put a light back bevel on the back of the plane blades with the 10,000 grit stone.

Welcome to the forum, Zeus.

As much as I like the Tormek, I think it is a clumsy tool for flattening and polishing the backs of plane irons. Do a google search for "David Charlesworth Ruler Trick". The back of a plane iron really needs to be flat and polished from the edge to where it contacts the chip breaker. Flattening and polishing the entire back is a waste of time.

Ken

I realize this is an old thread, but I am finally coming to terms with using the Tormek with my precious woodworking tools.  I just completed the week-long tool tuning course at David Charlesworth's shop in Devon, and the Tormek is a great tool for setting the primary angle of nearly every cutting edge.  However, it is only one part of the process and there is much work to be done using flat stones and a honing jig.

My new chisels, plane blades, and chip breakers needed attention to ensure an accurate cutting experience.  All of my planes and bevel chisels are Lie Nielsen, and my dovetail chisels are Blue Spruce.  Without exception, every edge needed more work to make it usable, and none of them had secondary bevels.  The chip breakers needed less work, but all needed some honing at the edge to ensure uniform contact with the plane blade.

I started by polishing the back of each blade and chisel on flat water stones to remove all manufacturer's tool marks and ensure I had a flat and polished surface.  I used an 800-grit water stone for most of the work, then moved to a 1200, 8000, and 10,000 grit stone for the rest of the work.  Once I had the backs to a mirror finish, or at least as good as A2 steel will allow, I moved on to the Tormek for the primary bevel shaping.

I put a 25-degree primary bevel on all of my Lie-Nielsen edges using the diamond wheel and the SE-77 jig.  From my limited experience, the SE-77 is the only jig to use since the diamond wheel can't be dressed to match the USB and any minor changes can be made for each blade.  I prepared over a dozen bevel chisels, and each required a different adjustment to square the grinding.  The Blue Spruce chisels were already at 25 degrees, so I didn't touch them until it was time for the secondary bevel.

Using a black Sharpie (or other permanent marker) on the bevel edge helps identify the grinding process and make rotation corrections to ensure the edge is square.  I stopped the grinding about 0.5mm from the edge of the blade.  This is all the Tormek can do, and it's back to the flat water stones for the rest.

The next step was to put a 33-degree secondary bevel using the 800-grit stone and honing guide.  A few firm passes will easily remove the remaining black mark from the sharpie and produce a nice wire edge.  Then set the projection in the honing guide for a 35-degree hone with the 10,000 grit stone.  Two or three gentle passes will usually make the wire edge fall away.  For chisels, the sharpening is finished...never put a back bevel on a bench chisel.  For plane blades, the last step is the ruler trick on the 10,000 grit stone to put a very small back bevel on the plane blade.  David estimates the back bevel is less than one degree and does not interfere with the chip breaker.

The Tormek hollow grind on the blades allows me to sharpen six or seven times before the secondary bevel becomes too wide.  This is a great improvement from my previous sharpening using only flat stones for each bevel.

"Schmidt" is a common German name. There was a company by this name famous for its 2 seated microcars in the 1950ies and infamous for WWII fighter planes.

Not to be pedantic, but the German company that made the bF-109 and the KR200 car was Messerschmitt (no "d" in the name).   

I use a Wixey angle gauge in my shop, and I can't think of any way to use it to set the angle with respect to the vertical side of a grinding wheel.  The angle gauge, as far as I know, is designed to work perpendicular to gravity and will not register any movement when rotated around the vertical axis.

Unless I'm missing something important in the original question, I think only a mechanical gauge or trig functions can be used to establish the angle between the side of the wheel and the plane iron or chisel.