Pictures attached
Following is a modification done by Kurt Johansson of Sweden to the DBS-22 drill bit fixture. It allows brad point drill bits and spade drill bits without spurs to be sharpened with the DBS-22 on the Tormek. He had posted on the Tormek User Group about it. Steve Bottoroff helped to get the pictures posted.
I am posting the following with his permission. Thank you, Kurt!
Elden
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The first picture with the text says in Swedish: New fulcrum, which is just a 6mm hole for the bolt.
(Note: Check the size of your fulcrum (pivot bolt). Mine is smaller than Kurt's. Drill an appropriate size hole for your pivot bolt. Elden)
By using the new fulcrum you can as you can see sharpen brad point or spade bits without spurs. stevebottorff Mon Jul 25 12:47:25 PDT 2011
Enclosed is a new picture that might help you to find the location for the
new point of fulcrum. First lock the screw at P but not to hard, then remove
the fulcrum bolt, next swing the plate counter clockwise till the position
on the picture. After that lock the screw at P fairly hard and drill a new
hole trough the bottom plate using the existing hole on the top plate as a
starting point. Please note that you have to take in account the underside
of the top plate so that you do not interfere with the slides under the top
plate.
Du har fått 1 bild.
________________________________________________
Kurt's email sent with the photos:
_______________________________________________
Hello Steve
I hope the pictures will come through.
The pictures where made originally for Tormek so they could consider the
possibilities.
The first picture with the text says in Swedish: New fulcrum, which is just a
6mm hole for the bolt.
By using the new fulcrum you can, as you can see, sharpen brad point or spade bits
without spurs.
The last picture shows my early drill sharpening jig. Pictures of this jig where
sent to Torgny Jansson a couple of years ago. <I did not post this photo>
I have been cooperating with Tormek for almost 20 years and have given them
quite a few new ideas during the years. Among others the SVD 180 jig, the
horizontal toolrest and others. I have earlier noticed that people are having
difficulties in sharpening lefthand scissors. I found out that it is possible to
use the knife jig SWM-45 on the horizontal toolrest for that job.
Kurt Johansson
_____________________________________________
Thanks to Ken and Juhani Tahvanainen for getting the allowable number of attachments increased to eight.
The new photo that Kurt mentioned is pretty much the same as the fourth photo and is now in this post.
Elden
Below are the communications that Kurt and I have had. Elden
Hello Elden
I got the new knife jig a couple of months ago for testing and have given a report for Tormek.
I have been cooperating with Tormek, especially the originator of the company Torgny Jansson for nearly twenty years until he sadly passed away.
We worked together on many improvements and jigs of which some are of my origin
Kurt Johansson
From: j*****
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 19:43:03 +0000
To: k*****
Subject: RE: DBS-22 modification
Kurt,
Thank you very much! As I stated, it will be attributed to you fully.
I invite you to check out the Tormek Community if you have not done so. Recently there have been discussions about a knife rest jig that allows one to sharpen small knives as well as large knives such as machetes, all with the same jig. It is similar to the SVD-110 but different. The idea came from one of the members and was advanced by another (Ionut and Herman).
Thank you very much,
Elden
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Kurt Johansson <k*****>
To: k*** <j*****>
Subject: RE: DBS-22 modification
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 21:16:09 +0200
Hello Elden.
Thank you for your mail. You are free to use the modification as you like.
I have never tried to keep anything concerning Tormek for myself or tried to make any profit from my cooperation with Tormek.
Greetings
Kurt Johansson
> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 18:48:32 +0000
> From: j*****
> To: k*****
> Subject: Re: DBS-22 modification
>
> Mr. Kurt Johansson,
>
> Greetings. I read about your DBS-22 modification with great interest. Since then, I have drilled a new pivot hole (fulcrum) on my unit. I have not tried it out yet, however.
>
> I am a member of the Tormek Community as well as this group. Jeff Farris is the moderator of the Tormek Community.
>
> I thought your modification was well worthy of being mentioned on the Tormek Community. I did so in a post there, stating that it could be seen on the Tormek User Group, but a membership would be required.
>
> One member posted back that he tried, but was not able to successfully join.
>
> Would you allow me to post your DBS-22 modification on the Tormek Community. All credits will be given to you.
>
> Actually, I would like it better if you would join the Tormek Community and post your DBS-22 modification there! We try to be a friendly group and welcome you to join us!
>
> Thank you,
> Elden Hunter
Quote from Kurt Johansson:
I got the new knife jig a couple of months ago for testing and have given a report for Tormek.
Kurt Johansson
I found it interesting that Kurt had received the small knife jig for testing a couple of months ago. As Jeff F. stated earlier, we can be sure that Tormek did not hurriedly put out the SVM-00 small knife jig. It obviously has been in the making for some time.
I would be very interested in Kurt's reaction to, and comments concerning, the HK-50.
I sent him an email asking about offset blades such as the multiple blade pocket knife in the SVS-00 this evening. It would be very interesting to know all his thoughts on the jig.
I am in the process of making another gizmo he mentioned. He made a wooden cup to fit on the knob (friction contact) of the TT-50. It has a spindle like piece fastened to it so that it can be chucked in a cordless drill. The cup is held in contact with the TT-50 feed advancement knob and is rotated with the drill on low speed. This gives a consistent and even feed rate.
For me that would be great as my left hand does not function well. I have to advance the TT-50 one handed. If it works well for me, I envision making the cup of rubber from an old forklift tire eventually. The cup possibly would be of metal with a rubber insert.
I still have the older truing tool with no screw feed!
The other thing I liked about Kurt's shop was the condition of his Tormek. What a contrast to see a real dirty Tormek with the grindstone worn almost all the way out. Jeff's video always show a shiny clean Tormek. ;)
Mine is somewhere in between.
Herman,
I sent links to Kurt of various threads about the HK-50. I plan to follow up to see if he checked it out in a few days.
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on April 10, 2013, 04:35:41 AM
The other thing I liked about Kurt's shop was the condition of his Tormek. What a contrast to see a real dirty Tormek with the grindstone worn almost all the way out. Jeff's video always show a shiny clean Tormek. ;)
Mine is somewhere in between.
My shop definitely does not look like what shows up behind Jeff in the videos! ::)
Neither does mine. ;D
Removed due to photo attachment problems. Testing in progress. Testing complete, possibly?!
Thank you, Elden for posting this very interesting topic. I would like to know more about Kurt Johansson and his ideas.
These posts bring up a major forum problem: We have lost many good photographs and their information due to photobucket's recent decision. I do not want to start a heated discussion about photobucket. I do want to restore the lost photographs to the forum.
Elden, and others, if you need help posting using the forum's method, would you please email the photos to one or members who are able to this along with topic links. This way, the photos can be added in a reference post. Even better, figure out how to post them using the forum method yourself. We can all edit our own posts, removing the photobucket stuff and replacing it with photos. Make a quiet cup of coffee and spend some time learning how to do this. It is not that difficult. If I can do it (I did), anyone can do it.
Grandkids are awake; must dash.
Ken
ps The moral of this story is always print out topics which are especially informative!
Elden,
Is he the same Kurt Johannson who is the the woodturner festured in one of the Tormek friends videos? I would be interested in knowing more about him?
Incidentally, I printed out this topic for future reference.
Ken
Ken,
I believe so but will have to research farther. Steve B might be able to able to answer that question. Kurt is (was) a member of the Tormek User Group. That was how I got in contact with him (via email) at that time. I had not been on there until just the other night when trying to recover those pictures. Since then, I found that downloading them from Photo Bucket is easily done if downloaded one at a time.
Elden,
As always, you are the forum's most valuable research person! Thanks.
Good tip about recovering photos one at a time from photobucket. I only had five in my account. I removed them and cancelled my acvount shortly after the debacle.
Ken
ps check your member mailbox
Very interesting. Is the placement of the hole critical? There were no dimensions (distances from nearest two edges) mentioned that I found, other than the size of the hole. Seems like it should matter.
Rick
Quote from: Elden on April 10, 2013, 12:04:40 AM
Enclosed is a new picture that might help you to find the location for the
new point of fulcrum. First lock the screw at P but not to hard, then remove
the fulcrum bolt, next swing the plate counter clockwise till the position
on the picture. After that lock the screw at P fairly hard and drill a new
hole trough the bottom plate using the existing hole on the top plate as a starting point. Please note that you have to take in account the underside
of the top plate so that you do not interfere with the slides under the top
plate.
Rick,
All I have is the above instructions. I have not used the modification yet. In my thinking, the placement of the hole is not very critical as long one does what he described above. There will not be a scale showing degrees and one would just match the existing angle of the bit being sharpened. I need to get mine out and try it as I have some dull spade bits. :)
I am working toward posting some more pictures of the modification as I did it as well as comments about it.
Part 1 Additional pictures and comments in regard to Curt's DBS-22 modification
In response to more than one request for further information about Curt's modification to the DBS-22, I will attempt to show what I have done to mine. I can not guarantee that the position of my pivot (fulcrum) point is exactly located where Curt's is. His jig appears to be just a little different than mine. His pivot (fulcrum) bolt is a little larger and the jig cosmetically is a little different. As I have stated previously, I do not feel that the exact position of the hole is a super critical issue. Following his instructions with his pictures will get you there.
I do not recommend drilling the through the existing hole in the top plate, rather use it to mark the location on the bottom plate through it, then drill the hole with the top plate out of the way. Transfer punches work great for marking, but are not an absolute necessity (I did not use one).This is soft material and it would not take much to wallow out the existing hole in the top plate if one was to drill through it.
The following instructions and pictures were made after my modification was done. Thus, my comments are about what it appears that I did. Curt's words are contained in quotation marks.
The photography is poor. Most of the pictures are from my ancient flip phone. However, not being for a photo contest, I believe they will work.
______________________________________________
" First lock the screw at P but not to hard,"
Trying to match the location shown in his photo the best I could, the pointer was close to 140° on the scale.
(See 1st picture) Tighten the locking screw enough to keep the adjustment from sliding but still it allow to pivot on that screw.
" then remove the fulcrum bolt, "
(2nd picture) Measure the diameter of the pivot (fulcrum) bolt after removing it so that you will know what size of hole to drill.
" next swing the plate counter clockwise te till the position on the picture."
(3rd picture)
(4th picture)
Note the position of the pointer in relationship to the bottom plate. This helps with the location process.
The 4th picture is much the same as the 3rd but maybe a little less blurred. The 3rd showed the upper part of the plates for added location purposes.
" After that lock the screw at P fairly hard and drill a new hole trough the bottom plate using the existing hole on the top plate as a starting point. Please note that you have to take in account the underside of the top plate so that you do not interfere with the slides under the top plate."
Tighten the locking screw sufficiently to stop the pivoting action. Again as I stated above, I do NOT recommend using the hole in the top plate as a guide for the drill bit. However, it is your money involved, not mine! Mark the position of the new pivot (fulcrum) hole on the bottom plate through the hole in the upper plate. As Curt stated, make sure the hole (consequently the pivot (fulcrum) bolt) you intend to drill will not interfere with the slides. Mine did not interfere. I recommend separating the top and bottom plates for drilling. Drill an appropriately sized hole according to the diameter of your pivot (fulcrum) bolt.
(5th picture) The underneath side of the bottom plate with new hole and bolt beside it.
I am reluctant to state dimensions for the location of the hole. I will give what they are close to for mine. Just be aware they are approximate, close figures for my unit. Consider them only as a reference that you are close to the same area. Castings and machinigs can be different.
(6th picture) shows the measuring of what I call from the side. 1.550 inches (39.37 mm) to the center of hole from the side
(7th picture shows the measuring of what I call from the end. 1.150 inches (29.21 mm) to the center of hole from the end
REMEMBER: DO NOT ESTABLISH THE LOCATION OF THE NEW PIVOT (FULCRUM) HOLE BY THE DIMENSIONS GIVEN IMMEDIATELY ABOVE. INSTEAD USE THE PROCEDURE GIVEN IN THE METHOD GIVEN ABOVE.
As I have more than 8 pictures, this discussion will be continued in part 2.
Part 2 Continuing Additional pictures and comments in regard to Curt's DBS-22 modification
(1st picture) underside of the bottom plate with the pivot ( fulcrum) bolt installed in the new pivot (fulcrum) hole
(2nd picture) upper side of the top and bottom plate positioned on the slide with pivot (fulcrum) bolt installed in the new pivot (fulcrum) hole
(3rd picture) unit with drill bit holder in position with a spade bit inserted. Note this was just for the picture. I have not set it up to the grinder yet, so the protrusion may not be correct. The top plate is rotated fully counterclockwise.
(4th picture) Same as the 3rd picture, however, the top plate is rotated fully clockwise.
(5th picture) Same as the 4th picture, but with the drill bit holder flipped 180° to second sharpening position.
Final thoughts for now: There seems to be a fair range of motion in the angle adjustment. I imagine it is sufficient for most spade bits. It would not be difficult to add more pivot (fulcrum) holes if needed for more exotic angles. I am not sure if I have the other style of bit, but Curt has shown one of those in his pictures.
I hope this helps.
I know I'm unearthing an old subject, but I have a few Festool brad point bits that have gotten quite dull.
So I think this modification might help a lot, as the Tormek is the only grinder I can use for this. I was wondering what you would suggest as far as the wheel for doing this is concerned:
- Use the SB-250, and maybe mess up the shoulder of the wheel, that I can always true back in shape later ?
- Use the DF-250, and use as always very light pressure, at the risk of of creating a small zone with higher wear than on the rest of the wheel ?
To be clear, the intent is not sharpening hundreds of brad point bits, just getting my dear ones back in shape.
Quote from: tgbto on March 19, 2021, 08:48:56 AM
I know I'm unearthing an old subject, but I have a few Festool brad point bits that have gotten quite dull.
So I think this modification might help a lot, as the Tormek is the only grinder I can use for this. I was wondering what you would suggest as far as the wheel for doing this is concerned:
- Use the SB-250, and maybe mess up the shoulder of the wheel, that I can always true back in shape later ?
- Use the DF-250, and use as always very light pressure, at the risk of of creating a small zone with higher wear than on the rest of the wheel ?
To be clear, the intent is not sharpening hundreds of brad point bits, just getting my dear ones back in shape.
This is a good question. If your "dear ones" are just a few, I would probably use the SB stone rather than risk the DF. And I suppose it depends on how much grinding is needed to return them to good service. The latter is why I would consider using a traditional grinding wheel, such as the Norton 3X, for initial work, as it will take metal off faster and is cheap enough to be sacrificial without inflicting that loss on the SB. Also, I think it would not cause much wear on a traditional wheel, so there really would not be much "sacrifice".
I have such wheels set up on my T8, so it is easy for me to consider this. This post by Ken S (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3551.msg22732#msg22732) is what started it for me and I have posted many times here about the benefits and use of traditional grinding wheels on Tormeks. There has been quite a bit of discussion of locating (to buy) or making bushings to mount the usually larger arbor holes (often 1") to the 12mm Tormek shaft. All easily doable.
I have to caveat all this, though, that I while I have made the modification that would allow use of the DBS-22 for brad point bits, I have not actually used it for this purpose. So I cannot say for sure that using a traditional grinding wheel would work as desired. I just have to believe it would as it is exactly the same, except narrower.
Final thought - try it out on one, see how much wear there is on the SB. Judge for yourself and report back on it.
And a PS on that final thought - these wheels are consumables (as the sage Ken S often comments). What good is it to have them, such as an SB, if we don't use them for what we need done?
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on March 19, 2021, 03:19:27 PM
This is a good question. If your "dear ones" are just a few, I would probably use the SB stone rather than risk the DF.
I had the same thought. For the same reason tgbto mentioned - you can re-true the SB wheel. I wouldn't expect too much wear and tear from just grinding a few bits.
Thank for your answers! I will modify the DBS-22 jig veeeeeeeeeery carefully and try on the SB. I will keep you posted!
Quote from: tgbto on March 22, 2021, 09:54:57 AM
Thank for your answers! I will modify the DBS-22 jig veeeeeeeeeery carefully and try on the SB. I will keep you posted!
Take reasonable care, but don't stress too much on exact placement of the pivot hole. The critical part is if you put a new clamping screw hole in, which has to rode in the curved slot, that needs to be done accurately so it slides freely.
Rick
Here we are: I modified the jig, and the instructions are idiotproof enough that I managed to do it with a basic drill press.
So it just works, what can I say. I think it will be hard to achieve the same level of precision that we do for conical drill bits, because there are many shapes and angles of brad point bits, no template to measure them nor scale on the modified plate.
But I was able to take a cheapo drill bit to a level of sharpness it had never seen, and the resulting hole is round, precise and not noticeably wider than the bit. All that on the SB wheel, in less time than it takes to write this post.
IT takes a bit of eyeballing/fiddling with the jig to get both the face angle and the point angle right. The way I did it was : set a rough estimate of the relief angle first, then adjust the sliding knob to get a reasonable fit for the point, then adjust the relief angle more precisely, and so on. I went very slowly with the depth adjustment screw because it now not only controls the amount of metal you remove from the bit but also the height of the tip. The alignment with the marks needs to be done so that they are perpendicular to the expected faces of the point (if they're not, see picture ^^). I don't believe it is possible to have the exact same angles as the original ones, but it will be close enough that nobody will notice.
[EDIT] Using the flip-flop feature of the DBS-22 no longer guarantees symmetry, but a collar stop on the universal support could do the trick [/EDIT]
Cheers,
Nick.