Jimmy asked me for more pictures of my implementation of Wootz's "Homemade honing jig & cleaver support". http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2583.0
I decided to start a new thread for the new pictures and also for those previously posted.
Here are the images of my implementation of Wootz's jig. As you can see, I follow in his footsteps. I only replaced his wooden block carrying the auxiliary vertical sleeves by a steel profile. The dimensions of the steel profile are 1 3/8 " x 2 1/8 " x 6 3/8 ".
Into the front side of the profile I drilled four holes with a diameter of 4.2 mm (11/64 ") and provided them with M5 thread for screws which hold the auxiliary vertical sleeves (additional Tormek Horizontal Base) of this jig.
(http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1802/11/11982/11982115_ca941ed2f566d26ff045b1eb4d031b15/images/Wootz_jig_2.jpg?ver=0)
Into the back side of the profile I drilled two holes with a diameter of 12 mm (1/2 "). Two M12 threated rods of the length 6 1/2 " anchor the steel profile into the sleeves of the T7 Horizontal Base.
(http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1802/11/11982/11982115_ca941ed2f566d26ff045b1eb4d031b15/images/Wootz_jig_1.jpg?ver=0)
The jig works fine with long knives and also with wide cleavers, the one shown is 3" wide.
(http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1802/11/11982/11982115_ca941ed2f566d26ff045b1eb4d031b15/images/wootz_with_long_knife.jpg?ver=0)
(http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1802/11/11982/11982115_ca941ed2f566d26ff045b1eb4d031b15/images/wootz_with_cleaver.jpg?ver=0)
Jan
Is the steel a hollow tube steel, or a solid block? (basically wondering why the nuts, if solid steel, I wouldn't think you would need them if you tapped it)
It is not a solid block, it is a hollow steel profile.
(http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1802/11/11982/11982115_ca941ed2f566d26ff045b1eb4d031b15/images/Wootz_jig_3.jpg?ver=0)
Jan
Bravo, Jan. Quite clever!
Ken
Quote from: Jan on October 13, 2015, 04:25:52 PM
Here are the images of my implementation of Wootz's jig. As you can see, I follow in his footsteps. I only replaced his wooden block carrying the auxiliary vertical sleeves by a steel profile. The dimensions of the steel profile are 1 3/8 " x 2 1/8 " x 6 3/8 ".
Into the front side of the profile I drilled four holes with a diameter of 4.2 mm (11/64 ") and provided them with M5 thread for screws which hold the auxiliary vertical sleeves (additional Tormek Horizontal Base) of this jig.
Into the back side of the profile I drilled two holes with a diameter of 12 mm (1/2 "). Two M12 threated rods of the length 6 1/2 " anchor the steel profile into the sleeves of the T7 Horizontal Base.
The jig works fine with long knives and also with wide cleavers, the one shown is 3" wide.
Jan
Brilliant Jan,
Could you please post us a Build of Material table with all dimension in Metric system if possible ? Because I have have some difficulty to read and switch from Imperial system to Metric system. About the steel profile, is it standard from market or home made from steel sheet ?
Bravo
Many thanks Jan. Now i got something to work on, and work with. A really good setup, picutres and explanation. Keep up the good work.
Quote from: Tournevis on October 14, 2015, 09:29:32 AM
Brilliant Jan,
Could you please post us a Build of Material table with all dimension in Metric system if possible ? Because I have have some difficulty to read and switch from Imperial system to Metric system. About the steel profile, is it standard from market or home made from steel sheet ?
Bravo
Thank you, Sheang, you are welcome! :)
Sorry for prioritizing users of the imperial system. My apology goes especially to you in France, which was the cradle of the Système International d'Unités.
The material table in metric system is following:
1. Hollow steel profile 35 x 55 x 162 mm, mat. thickness 2 mm
2. Two threated rods M12 x 165 mm
3. Four nuts M12 with washers
4. One low nut M12 as a micro adjust
5. Base for universal support and four screws M5 x 16 mm with washers (BGM – 100)
Ad 1) I used steel profile, which I got for free at a local hardware store. Don't search after the same profile cross-section, it is not important.
I cut the maximum length (162 mm), which fits with the T7 housing. My intention was to have enough place for future optional mounting of the universal support base closer to the grinding wheel.
Ad 2) This length of the threated rods will enable to sharpen 10 cm (4") wide cleavers. This is enough for the largest Chinese choppers I sharpened.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on October 14, 2015, 12:52:00 PM
Thank you, Sheang, you are welcome! :)
Sorry for prioritizing users of the imperial system. My apology goes especially to you in France, which was the cradle of the Système International d'Unités.
The material table in metric system is following:
1. Hollow steel profile 35 x 55 x 162 mm, mat. thickness 2 mm
2. Two threated rods M12 x 165 mm
3. Four nuts M12 with washers
4. One low nut M12 as a micro adjust
5. Base for universal support and four screws M5 x 16 mm with washers (BGM – 100)
Ad 1) I used steel profile, which I got for free at a local hardware store. Don't search after the same profile cross-section, it is not important.
I cut the maximum length (162 mm), which fits with the T7 housing. My intention was to have enough place for future optional mounting of the universal support base closer to the grinding wheel.
Ad 2) This length of the threated rods will enable to sharpen 10 cm (4") wide cleavers. This is enough for the largest Chinese choppers I sharpened.
Jan
Many thanks,
I will check if the 162 mm wide will fit to my T4.
Sheang, check it carefully!
T4 is in all dimensions smaller then T7. I did not test the jig with the T4. Good luck. :)
Jan
So getting the ideers from you guys. and the having the possibilities at work i made my own.. Not all done. it needs surface electric galvanizing (i also have that possibility at work)
First go.. what do you think.. i also spared the Tormek erhh holder thingy, and made that from some hinges
(http://i.imgur.com/9j7rKvQ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/BxaNZna.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EcHDJuP.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/IiCRWyQ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/YZPPh6V.png)
Very nice fabrication, Jimmy.
Can you figure out how to make one of these that will clamp onto the scissors jig base instead of having to use screws?
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1592.msg6634#msg6634
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on October 16, 2015, 05:43:55 PM
Very nice fabrication, Jimmy.
Can you figure out how to make one of these that will clamp onto the scissors jig base instead of having to use screws?
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1592.msg6634#msg6634
Just very quick and of top of my head would something like this work.. just a Version 2 of your own and i other fabric (If this is what i think you mean)
(http://i.imgur.com/ULpFwhN.png)
The read thing is linke the one on my contracption
in fabric like this: (Not sure what is it called, or the right one is i can't remember :D
(http://static.imerco.dk/produktbilleder/cook-baker-skaerebraetsaet-3-dele.jpg?i=5706447012655_5706447012655_1&w=460&h=343)
Nice piece of locksmith work, Jimmy! :)
You are a man of action. Yesterday you have asked for details and today is the work done. Congrats!
This jig (support) may be for the T4 even more important than for the T7, because the narrower T4 is more restricted in grinding away from the edge than the wider T7.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on October 13, 2015, 04:25:52 PM
Jimmy asked me for more pictures of my implementation of Wootz's "Homemade honing jig & cleaver support". http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2583.0
I decided to start a new thread for the new pictures and also for those previously posted.
Here are the images of my implementation of Wootz's jig. As you can see, I follow in his footsteps. I only replaced his wooden block carrying the auxiliary vertical sleeves by a steel profile. The dimensions of the steel profile are 1 3/8 " x 2 1/8 " x 6 3/8 ".
Into the front side of the profile I drilled four holes with a diameter of 4.2 mm (11/64 ") and provided them with M5 thread for screws which hold the auxiliary vertical sleeves (additional Tormek Horizontal Base) of this jig.
(http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1802/11/11982/11982115_ca941ed2f566d26ff045b1eb4d031b15/images/Wootz_jig_2.jpg?ver=0)
Into the back side of the profile I drilled two holes with a diameter of 12 mm (1/2 "). Two M12 threated rods of the length 6 1/2 " anchor the steel profile into the sleeves of the T7 Horizontal Base.
(http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1802/11/11982/11982115_ca941ed2f566d26ff045b1eb4d031b15/images/Wootz_jig_1.jpg?ver=0)
The jig works fine with long knives and also with wide cleavers, the one shown is 3" wide.
(http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1802/11/11982/11982115_ca941ed2f566d26ff045b1eb4d031b15/images/wootz_with_long_knife.jpg?ver=0)
(http://img18.rajce.idnes.cz/d1802/11/11982/11982115_ca941ed2f566d26ff045b1eb4d031b15/images/wootz_with_cleaver.jpg?ver=0)
Jan
Love this idea. VERY CLEAVER.
Seeing this makes me regret not having purchased a Tormek OWC-1 adaptor when I was at Hartville Hardware a week ago. Two holes drilled, some 14mm threaded rod and four bolts, combined with my BGM-100 kit would have made a fine cleaver holder.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on January 07, 2016, 03:16:12 AM
Seeing this makes me regret not having purchased a Tormek OWC-1 adaptor when I was at Hartville Hardware a week ago. Two holes drilled, some 14mm threaded rod and four bolts, combined with my BGM-100 kit would have made a fine cleaver holder.
Ken
Exactly what I had in mind Ken. ;)
I have brilliant hindsight. :)
Ken
What!!
I have totaly missed this jig, I love it, thankx wootz and Jan :)
Now I just have to figure out the parts to use and find the time.
I have getting better with honing though, my first objekt were dulled
You are welcome, Edwe! :)
When honing long knives, it is recommendable to dismount the grinding wheel. Instead of the grinding wheel put on the shaft a spacer about 45 mm thick for T7 and 35 mm thick for T4.
I use the double ended kenjig to set the position of the universal support for honing. It is easy and quick and guarantees the same bevel angle for honing and sharpening. Some people are honing freehand and unintentionally somewhat dull a nicely sharpened knife bevel.
Jan
Jan,
The spacer which originally shipped with the Tormek serves that purpose. Knowing how easily lost it is, I made several spares from an odd short piece of plastic water pipe. Plastic conduit woeks well, also. These spacers are also necessary when transporting a Tormek. The grinding wheel should be removed.
Ken
Jan & Ken, could you pls post a picture of what you mean ;)
Yes, you are correct, Ken! After your notice, I found the original spacer in the Tormek box. :)
It was made of so very thin-walled plastic tube, that it was deformed by the pressure of the EasyLock nut and so it I did not pay attention to it. I made robust hardwood spacer and the original one I will keep for transportation purposes.
Jan
Edwe, here you can see the original spacer (white) and my robust wooden spacer (brown) on the shaft.
(https://photos-6.dropbox.com/t/2/AADgRoqCg2fIAzrePU_59QCthRLFAs-6a_FBBCf_k2-qeQ/12/484370172/jpeg/32x32/1/_/1/2/SPACER_500.jpg/EOiO4vYDGD4gBygH/U2xIhltjlUIiR33qK0HGVe8HTSKLXAHLQXbornmcXos?size=1280x960&size_mode=3)
Jan
Sorry Jan
The picture could not be seen, at least for me
Here is the same image stored in another repository.
(http://img21.rajce.idnes.cz/d2102/11/11771/11771137_37021e568ec44478b9ce7dc74d286378/images/SPACER_500.jpg?ver=0)
Jan
Jan
Your solution is certainly more elegant and durable. I think the Tormek spacer is really only designed for shipping, which it does quite adequately.
Good photographs certainly help with explaining things. Well done, Jan.
Ken
Thank you Ken. It is only a chunk of oak roller bought as firewood. :)
Jan
You saw the angel in the piece of marble, Jan.
Ken
Quote from: Jan on October 14, 2015, 12:52:00 PM
Thank you, Sheang, you are welcome! :)
Sorry for prioritizing users of the imperial system. My apology goes especially to you in France, which was the cradle of the Système International d'Unités.
The material table in metric system is following:
1. Hollow steel profile 35 x 55 x 162 mm, mat. thickness 2 mm
2. Two threated rods M12 x 165 mm
3. Four nuts M12 with washers
4. One low nut M12 as a micro adjust
5. Base for universal support and four screws M5 x 16 mm with washers (BGM – 100)
Ad 1) I used steel profile, which I got for free at a local hardware store. Don't search after the same profile cross-section, it is not important.
I cut the maximum length (162 mm), which fits with the T7 housing. My intention was to have enough place for future optional mounting of the universal support base closer to the grinding wheel.
Ad 2) This length of the threated rods will enable to sharpen 10 cm (4") wide cleavers. This is enough for the largest Chinese choppers I sharpened.
Jan
Jan's post included dimensions of the stock used and fasteners, but did not include dimensions of the holes, probably for good reason. He can't know the spacing of the 12 mm USB mount holes of other's machines, or the spacing of the holes on the Horizontal Base adapter (XB-100 for the T-7). I took to my calipers and measured the sizes of the holes of all, and measured the distances between the holes, both the outer dimension as well as the inside dimension of the distance between sets of holes.
Interestingly, I found the USB holes on the machine case to be different (I have a T-8). The ones closest to the grinding wheel were fairly consistent, 0.477" (12.12mm). But the USB holes away from the grinding wheel were larger, closer to 0.5" (12.5mm) and much less consistent. (These were measured using a machinist telescoping gage, so it is as precise as I can get without resorting to gage pins, which I have.)
Then, adding or subtracting respective hole radii to distances between outer edges or inner edges of the holes, I came up with an approximation of the distance between the CENTERS of the USB holes: 3.5375" which equals 89.9mm. So, my guess is that Tormek uses a center distance of 90mm, which equals 3.543" That is what I'll use for drilling the USB support holes in the 1" x 2" x 1/8" thick rectangular steel tube that I"ll use for mounting the XB-100 (T-7) Horizontal Base.
Using similar procedures measuring the 5 mm hole spacings on the XB-100, I came up with 59mm (2.323") for the wide side spacing and 36mm (1.417") for the narrow hole spacing.
Your miles (KM):) may vary. Verify all dimensions on what you have and are using.
Rick
Rick, your interest pleases me! :)
It is an inexpensive and very versatile adaptor.
Jan
Quote from: RickKrung on November 20, 2017, 04:22:17 AM
Quote from: Jan on October 14, 2015, 12:52:00 PM
Thank you, Sheang, you are welcome! :)
Sorry for prioritizing users of the imperial system. My apology goes especially to you in France, which was the cradle of the Système International d'Unités.
The material table in metric system is following:
1. Hollow steel profile 35 x 55 x 162 mm, mat. thickness 2 mm
2. Two threated rods M12 x 165 mm
3. Four nuts M12 with washers
4. One low nut M12 as a micro adjust
5. Base for universal support and four screws M5 x 16 mm with washers (BGM – 100)
Ad 1) I used steel profile, which I got for free at a local hardware store. Don't search after the same profile cross-section, it is not important.
I cut the maximum length (162 mm), which fits with the T7 housing. My intention was to have enough place for future optional mounting of the universal support base closer to the grinding wheel.
Ad 2) This length of the threated rods will enable to sharpen 10 cm (4") wide cleavers. This is enough for the largest Chinese choppers I sharpened.
Jan
Jan's post included dimensions of the stock used and fasteners, but did not include dimensions of the holes, probably for good reason. He can't know the spacing of the 12 mm USB mount holes of other's machines, or the spacing of the holes on the Horizontal Base adapter (XB-100 for the T-7). I took to my calipers and measured the sizes of the holes of all, and measured the distances between the holes, both the outer dimension as well as the inside dimension of the distance between sets of holes.
Interestingly, I found the USB holes on the machine case to be different (I have a T-8). The ones closest to the grinding wheel were fairly consistent, 0.477" (12.12mm). But the USB holes away from the grinding wheel were larger, closer to 0.5" (12.5mm) and much less consistent. (These were measured using a machinist telescoping gage, so it is as precise as I can get without resorting to gage pins, which I have.)
Then, adding or subtracting respective hole radii to distances between outer edges or inner edges of the holes, I came up with an approximation of the distance between the CENTERS of the USB holes: 3.5375" which equals 89.9mm. So, my guess is that Tormek uses a center distance of 90mm, which equals 3.543" That is what I'll use for drilling the USB support holes in the 1" x 2" x 1/8" thick rectangular steel tube that I"ll use for mounting the XB-100 (T-7) Horizontal Base.
Using similar procedures measuring the 5 mm hole spacings on the XB-100, I came up with 59mm (2.323") for the wide side spacing and 36mm (1.417") for the narrow hole spacing.
Your miles (KM):) may vary. Verify all dimensions on what you have and are using.
Rick
I have previously measured the spacing between the USB holes, and came up with 90mm also... so can at least confirm that.
Thanks to both of you for the info... I'll be building one... as soon as the parts come in. :)
Quote from: Jan on November 20, 2017, 08:44:46 AM
Rick, your interest pleases me! :)
It is an inexpensive and very versatile adaptor.
Jan
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 20, 2017, 02:10:20 PM
I have previously measured the spacing between the USB holes, and came up with 90mm also... so can at least confirm that.
Thanks to both of you for the info... I'll be building one... as soon as the parts come in. :)
My implementation of Jan's extension jig is shown below. I already had the XB-100 Horizontal Base and the 1"x2"x1/8" thick steel tubing, so I was able to get this far. While I measured and posted the Base hole mount dimensions, I opted to clamp the base to the tube and spot drill the hole locations. I tried clamping it square but something didn't work out and the jig was not square once mounted, so I opened up the jig holes and now it does.
I also precision clamped the Base to the backside and spot drilled the first 12mm hole and then center drilled it. Then took out the layout blue and tools and carefully layed out and center punched the location of the second 12mm hole. Existing USBs slide in just fine.
I used to live in Portland, OR, USA (a medium sized city) and could just run out and get things like M12-1.5 threaded rod and nuts. But, a little over a year ago, I move to a tiny town in far NE Oregon with a population of 300, but it is in ranching country so it has two hardware stores. Still, I had to order the threaded rod and nuts. Will have to wait for them to finish the project.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on November 21, 2017, 03:06:25 AM
My implementation of Jan's extension jig is shown below. I already had the XB-100 Horizontal Base and the 1"x2"x1/8" thick steel tubing, so I was able to get this far. While I measured and posted the Base hole mount dimensions, I opted to clamp the base to the tube and spot drill the hole locations. I tried clamping it square but something didn't work out and the jig was not square once mounted, so I opened up the jig holes and now it does.
I also precision clamped the Base to the backside and spot drilled the first 12mm hole and then center drilled it. The took out the layout blue and tools and carefully layed out and center punched the location of the second 12mm hole. Existing USBs slide in just fine.
I used to live in Portland, OR, USA (a medium sized city) and could just run out and get things like M12-1.5 threaded rod and nuts. But, a little over a year ago, I move to a tiny town in far NE Oregon with a population of 300, but it is in ranching country so it has two hardware stores. Still, I had to order the threaded rod and nuts. Will have to wait for them to finish the project.
Rick
Thanks for the additional info. I previously mounted the XB-100 to the tool rest (for my current setup), and like you, I just clamped it on and drilled the holes. The funny thing... like you, it didn't come out quite right, even though it was clamped down, and I had to finagle it to get it square.
I am a bit 'concerned' about getting the 12mm holes lined up right (I just have simple hand tools). It'll definitely be a measure
twice many times before drilling. ;) (Accuracy not always my strong suit). :-[
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 21, 2017, 04:20:19 AM
I am a bit 'concerned' about getting the 12mm holes lined up right (I just have simple hand tools). It'll definitely be a measure twice many times before drilling. ;) (Accuracy not always my strong suit). :-[
I think you'll do fine. Establishing a good horizontal centerline is key as it will help keep the jig and USB square and horizontal (I checked the squareness of the USBs using a machinist's square... very impressive). I aligned the 12 mm holes in the tube with those of the XB100, more for the aesthetics. I don't think that matters as far as function goes, so focus your attention on getting those holes on the same horizontal plane.
But, if that doesn't happen, you can always open the holes up a bit and shift the threaded rods up or down when tightening the nuts. There is a lot of wiggle room with nuts and washers that size. I'd do that wiggling and final tightening with everything mounted on the machine and checking squareness in reference to straight surfaces on the machine. Not sure how much it matters, but I'm fussy that way sometimes (most of the time :) )
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on November 21, 2017, 05:37:27 AM
I think you'll do fine. Establishing a good horizontal centerline is key as it will help keep the jig and USB square and horizontal (I checked the squareness of the USBs using a machinist's square... very impressive). I aligned the 12 mm holes in the tube with those of the XB100, more for the aesthetics. I don't think that matters as far as function goes, so focus your attention on getting those holes on the same horizontal plane.
But, if that doesn't happen, you can always open the holes up a bit and shift the threaded rods up or down when tightening the nuts. There is a lot of wiggle room with nuts and washers that size. I'd do that wiggling and final tightening with everything mounted on the machine and checking squareness in reference to straight surfaces on the machine. Not sure how much it matters, but I'm fussy that way sometimes (most of the time :) )
Rick
Cool. Thanks again. (I noticed how well you had everything lined up... impressive).
Your part about the Tormek USB being square reminded me... I was trying to get a modified USB welded at a local shop... gave him the measurements and emphasized that it had to be perfectly square, 'cause it fit into another part. I had a Tormek USB with me as an example. The guy commented that it couldn't be "perfectly" square, and took the Tormek USB and checked it. "Oh wow" was his next statement. (He ended up deciding not to do it). :o
Rick and CB, I follow with interest and satisfaction your progress in the construction of the extension jig. It reminds me of my efforts some two years ago.
Rick, do not be afraid about squarness too much. The extension jig is intended to work with the knife jig and here the squarness/accuracy requirements are not as big as for the square edge jig for chisels sharpening. (USB used for square edge jig has to be perfectly aligned with the grind stone axis otherwise it is hardly possible to ground a square bevel.)
Jan
P.S.: CB, drill press would be a suitable Christmas present for you! Write a letter to Father Christmas. Three years ago I have donated my old drill press and bench grinder to my brother, who is a woodworker, and he told me that it has changed his life. I bought larger radial drill press with cross vise which I use for timber mortising.
Quote from: Jan on November 21, 2017, 04:55:55 PM
Rick and CB, I follow with interest and satisfaction your progress in the construction of the extension jig. It reminds me of my efforts some two years ago.
Rick, do not be afraid about squarness too much. The extension jig is intended to work with the knife jig and here the squarness/accuracy requirements are not as big as for the square edge jig for chisels sharpening. (USB used for square edge jig has to be perfectly aligned with the grind stone axis otherwise it is hardly possible to ground a square bevel.)
Jan
P.S.: CB, drill press would be a suitable Christmas present for you! Write a letter to Father Christmas. Three years ago I have donated my old drill press and bench grinder to my brother, who is a woodworker, and he told me that it has changed his life. I bought larger radial drill press with cross vise which I use for timber mortising.
I understand and agree that squareness for the extension jig is not the same as for the square edge jig and maybe some others. I just can't help myself. Somewhere in the 1990s, my daughter correctly labelled my affliction as far as hobbies go: serial obsessions. In that same time frame, she gave me a birthday card with this: "Happy Birthday to my serially obsessed, adolescent at heart Father". I still have that card.
Drill press - YES! I have three. A 1940 era bench top Delta (needs a motor), a restored floor model 1954 Delta and my small knee mill, which I use as a drill press, as well as for milling. It has a DRO, so drilling holes in precise locations is a dream. Latter has not been set up again since my move so I could not use it for drilling the XB-100 hole pattern.
Rick
Rick, in my understanding obsession is in intimate relationship with creativity which is now considered to be extremely important for future development. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
Jan
Quote from: Jan on November 21, 2017, 10:19:49 PM
Rick, in my understanding obsession is in intimate relationship with creativity which is now considered to be extremely important for future development. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
Jan
Quote from: Jan on November 21, 2017, 10:19:49 PM
Rick, in my understanding obsession is in intimate relationship with creativity which is now considered to be extremely important for future development. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
Jan
Thank you, I get that, but....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
OOOO MMMM Fricking GGGG! What a wonderful and powerful message. I posted the link on my FaceBook timeline.
I see it in my granddaughter. She loves music and dancing and I can so see how that could be "taught" out of her. She loves to have music played while we are driving. She wants to have control of what is played (on the car stereo - bluetooth). So, I hand her my phone and she plays what she wants. She loves "The Bug" by Dire Straits (sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug - splat). So another song came on "Calling Elvis" and she asked "what is this song called". I told her and she asked "what is an Elvis". So, I downloaded some Elvis songs, and some Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis and now we are dancing our fool feet off to these classic rock n roll tunes. I hope to be part of parenting that encourages her creativity.
In another vein, so few children learn how to use tools and make things. This is another area where I hope to create a learning environment for my granddaughter (Holly). I am always making or fixing things. When Holly was only about 9 months, my daughter made me promise to teach Holly all about tools and making things. That was a no brainer. I was already planning to do that, so making the promise was easy. Not yet 4, she knows how to use a cordless drill, a disk sander and has even "played" at grinding on the Tormek (actually just rubbing a dummy blade on the leather wheel, but she didn't know the difference). She has safety glasses and ear protection.
Rick
Rick, I'm glad you have enjoyed the lecture. Sometimes we need confirmation that our approach to life is right. Ted's message combined with his positive thinking, it's a real upbeat.
You are a lucky man because you have your granddaughter Holly! Grandchildren are God's blessing.
I have five grandchildren and can tell you that each child is different. To satisfy them all when they are together requires very empathic and creative approach.
My oldest granddaughter understands the BESS sharpness scale quite well, she knows that the device displays values in grams but that in fact measures force necessary to cut the test medium. It was a pleasure for BESS inventor Mike B. to see her Lego sharpness tester model.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on November 21, 2017, 04:55:55 PM
Rick and CB, I follow with interest and satisfaction your progress in the construction of the extension jig. It reminds me of my efforts some two years ago.
Rick, do not be afraid about squarness too much. The extension jig is intended to work with the knife jig and here the squarness/accuracy requirements are not as big as for the square edge jig for chisels sharpening. (USB used for square edge jig has to be perfectly aligned with the grind stone axis otherwise it is hardly possible to ground a square bevel.)
Jan
P.S.: CB, drill press would be a suitable Christmas present for you! Write a letter to Father Christmas. Three years ago I have donated my old drill press and bench grinder to my brother, who is a woodworker, and he told me that it has changed his life. I bought larger radial drill press with cross vise which I use for timber mortising.
Thanks for the additional info.
I actually do have a drill press... but have had some issues with it... so haven't used it... resorting to the ol' hand drill. I think you have a good point though... and may see if I can get it up and running again before I tackle this.
Quote from: Jan on November 22, 2017, 01:50:02 PM
My oldest granddaughter understands the BESS sharpness scale quite well, she knows that the device displays values in grams but that in fact measures force necessary to cut the test medium....her Lego sharpness tester model.
Isaiah 11:6
.... a little child shall lead them
When I first read about the Bess testor, I made a comment about it had the appearance that one ought to be able to fabricate one. Leave it to the ingenuity of youth to show us old people!
Quote from: Elden on November 22, 2017, 08:51:03 PM
Quote from: Jan on November 22, 2017, 01:50:02 PM
My oldest granddaughter understands the BESS sharpness scale quite well, she knows that the device displays values in grams but that in fact measures force necessary to cut the test medium....her Lego sharpness tester model.
Isaiah 11:6
.... a little child shall lead them
When I first read about the Bess testor, I made a comment about it had the appearance that one ought to be able to fabricate one. Leave it to the ingenuity of youth to show us old people!
What is the test medium and could we see a couple/few photos of the actuall BESS testing machine, please.
Rick
Instructions for the original PT 50 (includes some good pictures of it and the components)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.edgeonup.com/Instructions_For_Use_of_Your_PT50.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjru_KFu9PXAhWi5oMKHXK8BQMQFjAVegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw0o87xJ5bB8a_CtDQrL_kcw
Edge on up website
http://www.edgeonup.com
Under the purchase tab you can see the KN100 & ME110 models. I believe these were the originals that were made before the PT 50 models.
Replacement test media (string) is available.
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 22, 2017, 05:10:08 PM
Thanks for the additional info.
I actually do have a drill press... but have had some issues with it... so haven't used it... resorting to the ol' hand drill. I think you have a good point though... and may see if I can get it up and running again before I tackle this.
CB,
What sort of issues have you had with your drill press? I restored my Delta floor model, including changing out the spindle, repairing the push button switches and other stuff. Plus I restored a 1941 Rivett 1020 lathe, which involved a lot of reworking of parts and making whole new parts by making patterns and having them cast in metal and then machining. I want to convert the Delta drill press from single phase 110 AC to three phase by installing a VFD (variable frequency drive). I have the three phase motor but not the VFD. I've installed VFDs on my Rivett lathe and my 6x26 vertical knee mill, as well as on two of someone else's Bridgeport mills and a radial arm drill press (Jan, I'll be asking you about yours).
If you would like to talk about it, we should probably PM each other personal emails so as to take it off the Tormek forum.
Rick
Quote from: Jan on November 21, 2017, 04:55:55 PM
I bought larger radial drill press with cross vise which I use for timber mortising.
Jan,
Please tell me more about your "radial drill press with cross feed". I just posted about offering to help CB with his drill press and about having mounted a VFD to someone else's radial arm drill press. But I never operated it in actual use, just confirmed that it ran under the VFD controls. The notion of a cross feed is intriguing. Do you mean something like and X and Y direction cross feed table? I use my vertical knee mill, with DRO, in this fashion, but it is limited to just in travel the X and Y directions (although, I do have if fitted with knee milll travel DRO)
Since this is getting into non-"Tormek" territory, we may need to take this off the forum and into the PM or general personal email realm
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on November 23, 2017, 01:58:07 AM
CB,
What sort of issues have you had with your drill press? I restored my Delta floor model, including changing out the spindle, repairing the push button switches and other stuff. Plus I restored a 1941 Rivett 1020 lathe, which involved a lot of reworking of parts and making whole new parts by making patterns and having them cast in metal and then machining. I want to convert the Delta drill press from single phase 110 AC to three phase by installing a VFD (variable frequency drive). I have the three phase motor but not the VFD. I've installed VFDs on my Rivett lathe and my 6x26 vertical knee mill, as well as on two of someone else's Bridgeport mills and a radial arm drill press (Jan, I'll be asking you about yours).
If you would like to talk about it, we should probably PM each other personal emails so as to take it off the Tormek forum.
Rick
Hey Rick, thanks for the offer. Not really sure what's wrong, other than something is loose that makes it hard to line it up precisely. (I'll line it up off, but when I flip it on, it'll drill in a different spot). It's a cheap Harbor Freight many years old.... like Jan said, maybe time to be nice to Santa. :)
If I get an idea what the problem is, I may give you a holler.
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 23, 2017, 02:25:33 AM
Hey Rick, thanks for the offer. Not really sure what's wrong, other than something is loose that makes it hard to line it up precisely. (I'll line it up off, but when I flip it on, it'll drill in a different spot). It's a cheap Harbor Freight many years old.... like Jan said, maybe time to be nice to Santa. :)
If I get an idea what the problem is, I may give you a holler.
Curious. There is a lot to think about there. It would be helpful to hear what your "line up" process entails and what your drilling procedures are.
It is hard to imagine, if the machine's head is locked in place, how it could not drill where it is lined up, as far as machine malfunction is concerned. Easy to think of how the lack of center-punching, center-drilling and how the width of the center drill web could lead to wandering, especially with larger drills.
The process I use, particularly when free-hand drilling, is: 1) carefully lay it out, with caliper scribed cross-hairs for each drill location, 2) precisely center-punch each location. I use a spring-loaded punch, but careful alignment of any punch is critical. (If the punched point is off, move it, by placing the punch center in the divot and angling the punch away from the direction it needs to move and punching again. Repeat as necessary)., 3) center-drill to create a hole that the drill cannot deviate from. 4) begin drilling, with small drills, working up in small increments, especially for larger hole sizes like 12mm and especially when using a drill press or hand drill where you cannot control the spindle (drill) speed. In my case, the Delta is really a wood working tool, so it's slowest speed is too fast for drilling full diameter holes in metal, especially thinner thicknesses, such as the rectangular tubing I was drilling (Hence, my interest in installing a VFD). I worked up in size by 1/16" dia. at first, but as the hole got bigger, by 1/32" dia. Grip the workpiece tightly, but at the same time, loosely enough to let the drill find its center in the previous hole. This means holding the workpiece itself tightly but allowing it to float/shift under the drill's pressure until it is centered. The drill will try to grab the workpiece and spin it as it breaks through. Best to be holding the workpiece in a drill vise unless it is large enough to make that moot. I hope this makes sense.
When drilling on my milling machine, using the DRO, I often dispense with the layout, but always center-drill prior to beginning drilling. When drilling on the mill, where the workpiece is securely held, I'll often drill full sized, or work up in larger increments.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on November 23, 2017, 02:15:20 AM
Quote from: Jan on November 21, 2017, 04:55:55 PM
I bought larger radial drill press with cross vise which I use for timber mortising.
Jan,
Please tell me more about your "radial drill press with cross feed". I just posted about offering to help CB with his drill press and about having mounted a VFD to someone else's radial arm drill press. But I never operated it in actual use, just confirmed that it ran under the VFD controls. The notion of a cross feed is intriguing. Do you mean something like and X and Y direction cross feed table? I use my vertical knee mill, with DRO, in this fashion, but it is limited to just in travel the X and Y directions (although, I do have if fitted with knee milll travel DRO)
Since this is getting into non-"Tormek" territory, we may need to take this off the forum and into the PM or general personal email realm
Rick
Rick, because we are discussing tools suitable for manufacturing the extension jig for Tormek, I hope we can post it here.
My radial drill press is similar to https://www.amazon.com/W1669-2-Horsepower-Benchtop-Radial-Drill/dp/B001R23SOA
My Universal 4" Cross Slide Drill Press Vise is similar to https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Cross-Slide-Drill-Press/dp/B001FGAJTA
The cross vise is mounted to the drill press table.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on November 23, 2017, 09:27:16 AM
Rick, because we are discussing tools suitable for manufacturing the extension jig for Tormek, I hope we can post it here.
My radial drill press is similar to https://www.amazon.com/W1669-2-Horsepower-Benchtop-Radial-Drill/dp/B001R23SOA
My Universal 4" Cross Slide Drill Press Vise is similar to https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Cross-Slide-Drill-Press/dp/B001FGAJTA
The cross vise is mounted to the drill press table.
Jan
Jan,
Nice looking drill press. And nice to have the cross slide drill press. The type that I worked on is a bit different an larger and very hard to find.
Rick
Rick,
Is that the drill press version of a radial arm saw (which, there is a good reason you don't find sold new any more !) ?
Rich
Quote from: RichColvin on November 23, 2017, 07:09:41 PM
Rick,
Is that the drill press version of a radial arm saw (which, there is a good reason you don't find sold new any more !) ?
Rich
Yes, and the only ones I've found sold new are huge, meant for metal working. I have no interest or need for anything like that, although I would love to find and old Delta, as the one pictured. Should the need arise, I have access to both in friends shops, but they are both 350 miles away.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on November 23, 2017, 07:57:34 AM
It is hard to imagine, if the machine's head is locked in place, how it could not drill where it is lined up, as far as machine malfunction is concerned. Easy to think of how the lack of center-punching, center-drilling and how the width of the center drill web could lead to wandering, especially with larger drills.
Rick
CB,
I didn't get into how the facet grind of a drill bit affects wandering and breakout, but there is a very enlightening thread in the Drill Bit Sharpening Forum about a four and six facet grinds on drill bit points that may be of interest to you:
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3265.0
The DBS-22 Drill Bit Sharpening Attachment is capable of putting both 4 and 6 facet grinds on drill bit points. The DBS-22 was a prime motivation for me to invest in a Tormek:
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3350.0
Be sure to read the "Drill Bit Geometry" article by Joseph Mazoff, mentioned by RichColvin in that thread.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on November 23, 2017, 07:19:19 PM
CB,
I didn't get into how the facet grind of a drill bit affects wandering and breakout, but there is a very enlightening thread in the Drill Bit Sharpening Forum about a four and six facet grinds on drill bit points that may be of interest to you:
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3265.0
The DBS-22 Drill Bit Sharpening Attachment is capable of putting both 4 and 6 facet grinds on drill pit points. The DBS-22 was a prime motivation for me to invest in a Tormek:
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3350.0
Be sure to read the "Drill Bit Geometry" article by Joseph Mazoff, mentioned by RichColvin in that thread.
Rick
I will take a look... thanks! :)
Quote from: RickKrung on November 23, 2017, 06:54:53 PM
Jan,
Nice looking drill press. And nice to have the cross slide drill press. The type that I worked on is a bit different an larger and very hard to find.
Rick
Rick, thanks for the picture of a nice old radial drill press!
I hoped my could enable some simple milling work also, but thanks to the many degrees of freedom the construction is not sturdy enough.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on November 23, 2017, 10:24:12 PM
Rick, thanks for the picture of a nice old radial drill press!
I hoped my could enable some simple milling work also, but thanks to the many degrees of freedom the construction is not sturdy enough.
Jan
Jan,
And depending on the way the chuck mounts to the spindle, a very bad idea. If it is a taper mount without a screw that holds it in place (very common), with side thrust from milling, the chuck could come flying off the taper. Drill presses are just not made for milling...
For a number of years, I did a whole lot of good work on this type of mill:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini-Milling-Machine/G8689?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com
Rick
Rick, thanks for your explanation. It is good to know that the mini milling machines can do a lot of good work.
Jan
Well... that was easy.... 8)
(https://image.ibb.co/mo9gSm/Horiz2_Vert_Adptr01.jpg)
... and it works!
(Still don't know what the deal is with the drill press... no matter how well I line things up, even with a pilot hole, it "kicks" up in one direction, away from me when I go to drill. I just made sure I did it the same on both sides, haha, (and also so it wouldn't affect the 90mm distance). Anyway, I'll deal with that some other time I suppose). :o
Thanks for all the help! :)
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 25, 2017, 11:25:23 PM
Well... that was easy.... 8)
(https://image.ibb.co/mo9gSm/Horiz2_Vert_Adptr01.jpg)
... and it works!
(Still don't know what the deal is with the drill press... no matter how well I line things up, even with a pilot hole, it "kicks" up in one direction, away from me when I go to drill. I just made sure I did it the same on both sides, haha, (and also so it wouldn't affect the 90mm distance). Anyway, I'll deal with that some other time I suppose). :o
Thanks for all the help! :)
Good job!
Quote from: sharpco on November 27, 2017, 12:28:32 PM
Good job!
Thanks. Works great.... allowed me to "retire" the one I put together with hose clamps. :D
CB, really nice extension jig, congrats! :)
Jan
Quote from: Jan on November 27, 2017, 03:00:48 PM
CB, really nice extension jig, congrats! :)
Jan
Thanks to you for the idea and plans (and also Rick's input)... works great! :)
Quote from: RickKrung on November 21, 2017, 03:06:25 AM
Quote from: Jan on November 20, 2017, 08:44:46 AM
Rick, your interest pleases me! :)
It is an inexpensive and very versatile adaptor.
Jan
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 20, 2017, 02:10:20 PM
I have previously measured the spacing between the USB holes, and came up with 90mm also... so can at least confirm that.
Thanks to both of you for the info... I'll be building one... as soon as the parts come in. :)
My implementation of Jan's extension jig is shown below. I already had the XB-100 Horizontal Base and the 1"x2"x1/8" thick steel tubing, so I was able to get this far. While I measured and posted the Base hole mount dimensions, I opted to clamp the base to the tube and spot drill the hole locations. I tried clamping it square but something didn't work out and the jig was not square once mounted, so I opened up the jig holes and now it does.
I also precision clamped the Base to the backside and spot drilled the first 12mm hole and then center drilled it. Then took out the layout blue and tools and carefully layed out and center punched the location of the second 12mm hole. Existing USBs slide in just fine.
I used to live in Portland, OR, USA (a medium sized city) and could just run out and get things like M12-1.5 threaded rod and nuts. But, a little over a year ago, I move to a tiny town in far NE Oregon with a population of 300, but it is in ranching country so it has two hardware stores. Still, I had to order the threaded rod and nuts. Will have to wait for them to finish the project.
Rick
The threaded rod and nuts arrived today, so I completed my entry. I was easily able to obtain M12 x 1.5 threaded rod in plain steel, but it cost a fortune (>$300 US) for it in stainless steel. So, I opted for M123 x 1.75 which was way less expensive ($34). Seems to me like it won't matter that much.
I made the bars 8" long. Not sure that I'll ever need them that long, but I had a meter of threaded rod.
Rick
Good job, Rick! Very nice extension jig. :)
I was terrified by the overpriced M12 threaded rod. Here 1 m of stainless M12 threaded rod costs less than $5 and the zinced one between $1 and $2. It is so inexpensive that I sometimes use it as reinforcing iron into concrete.
Jan
Nice work, Rick!
This is another example of how the scope and versatility of the Tormek extends beyond what is commercially profitable to manufacture and sell to a large market. While I can certainly understand Tormek's business situation, it is refreshing to see such ingenuity among the forum.
Ken
So, this has to change the angle with which you hold the tool when sharpening from the "horizontal" position. Not the sharpening angle, but the way you hold it must be more vertically oriented than without this piece holding the USB.
Do you find that this makes sharpening easier or harder? Do you have to adjust the height of the grinder to accommodate?
Rich
Quote from: RickKrung on November 28, 2017, 05:25:30 AM
The threaded rod and nuts arrived today, so I completed my entry. I was easily able to obtain M12 x 1.5 threaded rod in plain steel, but it cost a fortune (>$300 US) for it in stainless steel. So, I opted for M123 x 1.75 which was way less expensive ($34). Seems to me like it won't matter that much.
I made the bars 8" long. Not sure that I'll ever need them that long, but I had a meter of threaded rod.
Rick
Looks good (no surprise there). ;) I also used M12x1.75 (didn't even have a 1.5 option, but yeah that price is crazy) and mine are about the same length.
Quote from: RichColvin on November 28, 2017, 01:52:17 PM
So, this has to change the angle with which you hold the tool when sharpening from the "horizontal" position. Not the sharpening angle, but the way you hold it must be more vertically oriented than without this piece holding the USB.
Do you find that this makes sharpening easier or harder? Do you have to adjust the height of the grinder to accommodate?
Rich
I find it to be a more "natural" position (sharpening knives anyway)... it brings the height up, and the movement is closer to sharpening freehand. Much easier. It brings the height up to where it should be, so no need to adjust the height of the Tormek. It also brings it up to a position where I can see the edge contacting the stone better.
Sharpening directly off the horizontal USB was too low and an unnatural movement for me (again for knives).
Quote from: RichColvin on November 28, 2017, 01:52:17 PM
So, this has to change the angle with which you hold the tool when sharpening from the "horizontal" position. Not the sharpening angle, but the way you hold it must be more vertically oriented than without this piece holding the USB.
Do you find that this makes sharpening easier or harder? Do you have to adjust the height of the grinder to accommodate?
Rich
I haven't used it yet, and was expecting to use it more for honing than sharpening. I'll go with CB's response. I am thinking it will be a "figure it out as you go" thing and probably be based a lot on use of the AM and examining black marker scrapings to establish angles.
I do have further ulterior motives, however. For drill bit sharpening, I really like the four facet grinds, but want to put on more relief than it seems the Tormek is very good at. Thus, I want to set up the USB on my high speed dry grinder so as to create the relief and then bring it to the Tormek for the final four facet grinding.
I'll likely need another BGM-100 and it occurs to me that with that, and this jig extension, it will serve the same function as the OWC-1 Converter that is meant to work with the Wolverine V arm (that I don't have).
Rick
Rick,
I'm interested in your efforts & experiences with the tertiary facet grinding of a drill bit. As a hobby machinist, I believe this will be greatly helpful for drilling steels on the metal lathe (& pillar press ?).
Maybe post your results to Drill Bit Sharpening folder ?
Rich
Quote from: RichColvin on November 29, 2017, 12:12:17 AM
Rick,
I'm interested in your efforts & experiences with the tertiary facet grinding of a drill bit. As a hobby machinist, I believe this will be greatly helpful for drilling steels on the metal lathe (& pillar press ?).
Maybe post your results to Drill Bit Sharpening folder ?
Rich
Rich,
I am also a hobby machinist. And yes, when I do more with the drill bit grinding, I'll post on the Drill Bit Sharpening forum.
I have only sharpened two drills with the four facets, a 1/2" and 5/8". Most of my other drills do not need sharpening (yet). This is partly because, as I've posted at least a couple times, in all metals and often in wood, when free-hand drilling, I start by center-punching the hole location, followed by center-drilling. Then if the hole is small, I'll drill it full size. If the hole is larger, and especially if the material being drilled is thin, I start small and work up in increments, 1/16" or 1/8". Thus, the drills always have a center already established.
Even when drilling on my milling machine, where the work piece is securely held and location is precisely determined by a DRO, the drill bit can wander, so there also I always center-drill first. I guess, I could hope that the four facet grind could change that.
Probably should have said this first, but, as I understand it, the four facet grind is primarily for reducing the tendency of the drill to wander when first starting the hole, due to the wide web at the center of the conventional two facet grind. This would occur if starting the hole without center punching and/or center-drilling. As I see it, if a center (hole) has already been established, the four facet grind has little bearing as only the two leading facets are doing the cutting.
I will definitely be putting four facet grinds on any drills I sharpen (with the Tormek) in the future, especially the larger ones, as any help in keeping things on point is helpful.
Rick
Rick,
I too center drill, and progressively increase bit sizes. I have found that, in these cases, the secondary facet isn't about wandering, but about chip evacuation. The secondary relief is to help with this, and consequently with pressure needed to drill. That is what I found in the information from Joseph Mazoff (http://www.newmantools.com/machines/drillpoint.html).
Rich
Quote from: RichColvin on November 29, 2017, 04:35:20 AM
Rick,
I too center drill, and progressively increase bit sizes. I have found that, in these cases, the secondary facet isn't about wandering, but about chip evacuation. The secondary relief is to help with this, and consequently with pressure needed to drill. That is what I found in the information from Joseph Mazoff (http://www.newmantools.com/machines/drillpoint.html).
Rich
Yes, I was forgetting that part of his discussion. Thanks for the reminder.
Rick