Hi All,
If this redundant, please delete & point me to the existing conversation. I looked thru the first 5 pages and did not find this topic.
I am trying to choose between the T-8 Original and the T-4 Original. I will be sharpening knives and chisels. After the necessary jigs, the T-8 is $155 more expensive for what appears to the almost identical item, the only difference being the size of the wheels.
My question is: What am I missing? What is(are) the advantage(s) to(of) the T-8? What don't I know?
Thanks,
edg
Worth checking out the Knife Grinders YouTube video comparing T4 and T8...
Will do.
Thanks,
edg
I assume that this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjgH-vqLXO0 is the video you are referring to. I like the part where the guy is pouring what I believe to be beer over wheel.
As you see the price difference once you add truing tool is not a huge consideration. One consideration is moving the machine around. If you are going to buy it and for the most part use it in one place get the T-8. The T-4 is considerably lighter if it is used mobily (like a farmers market). Both machines do a great job. Another consideration until recently was that diamond wheels were not available for the T-4. They are now available.
When I was deciding I considered the price differential, knew it was for a fixed location and opted for the T-8. I have yet to wish I had bought the T-4.
Welcome to the forum, Ed. You will receive many different opinions for your question. For what it's worth, here is mine:
I suggest that you ignore any price differences between the T4 and T8. A Tormek is a long term investment. Frankly, a hundred dollars plus or minus shouldn't make any difference over the long run. I believe more important considerations are what tools you intend to sharpen, how many. and if yourTormek will be stationary or moved around. Knives and chisels are certainly within the scope of either model. If your Tormek will be permanently located in a large shop, you might prefer the T8. If you will have to move your Tormek around, you will appreciate the lighter weight of the T4.
There are more differences between the T4 and the T8 than just the size of the grinding wheels. The T8 has a larger motor. Please do not believe the debunked myth of the "thirty minute duty cycle". The T4 motor has plenty of power for what you need; the T8 motor is just more powerful.
I suggest you watch the online classes on Tormek's you tube channel. Knowledge is power. Keep asking questions.
Ken
I can appreciate the thoughts and comments about ease of moving a T4 around, say for doing mobile sharpening and/or farmers markets, but I just have to say that I have a T8 and never had any issue moving it to farmers markets or, as I frequently do, pack up my whole kit and travel to friend's houses to sharpen their stuff.
Full disclosure, I have never set eye in person on a T4, let alone pick one up, so maybe I'm full of it, but...
Rick
In the event that the KGA video doesn't make it clear, you will need the TT-50 truing tool. Tormek has excluded the TT-50 from the T-4 to get a lower price for the T-4 package (to optimize sales), but the reality is you will need the truing tool as a flat stone is fundamental to proper sharpening on any Tormek. This reduces the price differential by the time you add in the TT-50.
See Sebastian and Wolfgang discussion on the Tormek Live Grand Machine Comparison:
https://youtu.be/tXO6YejYdck?t=1671 (https://youtu.be/tXO6YejYdck?t=1671)
Beaker.
I have T4 and T7 (now it is T8). I need both. I do not understand how I managed to get by with one TORMEK ;) And yet, if I had to choose only one of them now, it would be T8. First of all, I like the size and long life of the T8 grinding wheels.
The T4 is currently being used as a honing station. The T4 fits perfectly with the leather and composite wheels from the T8.
Quote from: Arthur on February 15, 2022, 07:36:01 AM
I have T4 and T7 (now it is T8). I need both. I do not understand how I managed to get by with one TORMEK ;) And yet, if I had to choose only one of them now, it would be T8. First of all, I like the size and long life of the T8 grinding wheels.
The T4 is currently being used as a honing station. The T4 fits perfectly with the leather and composite wheels from the T8.
I would like to have the T-4 set up as a honing station like you have it. Honing is where you can really enhance the sharpness of a knife. I would like to get the composite wheel and be able to have my 2nd leather wheel all mounted at the same time. For now it is not that bad to switch wheels.
I got the T4, then buying all the stuff seperate I regret not just buying the bigger one!
but the T4 is still overkill for my small collection of knives so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote from: JustADudeInSweden on February 16, 2022, 08:47:02 PM
I got the T4, then buying all the stuff seperate I regret not just buying the bigger one!
but the T4 is still overkill for my small collection of knives so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No need to regret. t4 works great. For a long time I had only t4 and I am absolutely satisfied with it.
Only after increasing the number of sharpenings did I purchase a used t7.
T4 is capable of a lot. :)
I didn't mean that kind of regret, I love my T4!
I meant after buying all the jiggs and truer the price diff was/is not all that much so maybe I should have gone in for the big brother.. :P
I was in the same boat as you a few months ago. Ultimately, due to my space constraints, I went with the T4. I wanted the ability where I could stash it away when not in use, and be able to travel with it if needed. I've already been able to take it to my brothers house and do all of his knives when I visited him for the weekend, which it somewhat convenient to carry (I could find a better solution). I wish I had a dedicated workstation where I could keep it out 24/7, as pulling it out to touch up a knife can be somewhat of a pain. My work schedule is quite hectic, and I'm constantly in a state of exhaustion, so it often becomes a tomorrow job unless I can plan on sharpening a few knives (Then it becomes fun). My newest primary chef knife could use a good hone, but to take out the T4, set it up, and put it back could easily turn into an hour or two with all of the side projects I find. I'd want to see what else I could hone, and get those done. Then I'd probably notice the wheel is slightly out of round, so I'd consider truing it. I'd end up getting tired and then telling myself I'd put it away in the morning. You see where this is going.
My only major gripe, or frustration, would be the size of the honing wheel. When using a FVB to hone, a small knife (Under 3-4"), seems to not work on the distal edge so much. The curvature of the wheel is fairly great, so when you get to the tip of the knife, between the curve of the knife and the roundness of the wheel, the degree to which you hone rises significantly I believe. I'll attempt to get some pictures tonight to show further what I mean. It's not a deal breaker, but it is a consideration to anyone who plans to use a FVB.
Thankfully we are considering the purchase of a larger home in the near future. Our new home will definitely have a workshop area for me to have my tools and such so I'll be able to have my tormek at a dedicated workstation and always available. At that time, I may consider looking at a T8 at that time. It'd be unnecessary, but I do a lot of unnecessary things! If I ever can get a small sharpening gig on the side set up, it'd be good to have a second machine available. And by sharpening gig, I'm talking small time, like doing it for fun when I have time.
Timothy,
I carry my T4 in a single ball bowling bag. It cost $32 US several years ago. I dismount the grinding wheel, place it in the original box after wrapping it in plastic, and place the box flat in the bottom of the bowling bag. The T4 sits on it. (Don't forget the spacer.) There is plenty of room for your jigs and accessories, including an extension cord and a sheet of plastic to catch any spillage. (Your sister-in-law will appreciate this.)
This rig is easy to carry, even for an old guy like me.
If you still have T8 fever down the road, do not be quick to sell your T4. It remains a very useful tool, especially for mobile work. It can handle all of the Tormek jigs. It can also work with a 250mm felt wheel, if you are so inclined.
For those who secretly lust after large V8 engines in their vehicles to commute to work, nothing but the T8 will bring full satisfaction. For most of us, the T4 is a very able machine. With Tormek, there are no bad choices.
Ken
Quote from: Millerti87 on February 18, 2022, 02:39:29 PM
I was in the same boat as you a few months ago. Ultimately, due to my space constraints, I went with the T4. I wanted the ability where I could stash it away when not in use, and be able to travel with it if needed. I've already been able to take it to my brothers house and do all of his knives when I visited him for the weekend, ..
Yep! Did my sisters knives ;), got that chefs knife edge better than factory! 8)
Quote from: Ken S on February 18, 2022, 04:38:50 PMWith Tormek, there are no bad choices.
...and comes with a s**tload of fun! I've been experimenting with different angles with "HOUCHO" branded kitchen knives (cheap-ish Japn knife that I got for free).
It's so damn easy to just load the water and grind a new angle in 2 mins to see which works best. My honing skills are still crap IMHO ::) even after watching the Tormek honing video. :o
I hear what ken said about not letting cost be a factor but for me there was another consideration. As ken also says, Tormek is a long term investment and for me it was how much would i get out of it. Being retired i am not sure how many years i will still be using it particularly how frequently i would need to reshape my tools for once they have a good shape, excluding accidents they will only need frequent honing. From a purely maths basis i could get a t4, se77, tt50 and htk hand tool kit for about the cost of a t8 and i would have everything i needed and more and that should comfortably see me out so couldnt justify getting a t8. Most of my current projects are for garden equipment so they are all rough sawn and never see a plane and only rarely need a chisel (mainly jigsaw, drill/screwdriver and sander)!
My only concern was the t4 meaty enough for my axe and yes it most certainly is.
If i were younger and building all our kitchen cupboards, making beds and a lot of other indoor furniture again, then i would certainly have gone for the t8 but as i only have a few carpentry projects lined up that require my hand tools, the compact t4 is ideal, despite now having a workshop!
Timothy,
Your comments reflect some serious life based thought. Like you, I am retired and thoughts of grand projects are in the past. And, yes, most of my projects see a jigsaw, drill driver, and sander. My senior citizen hands appreciate letting the Tormek do the work, but certainly don't need a T8. Considering that I sharpened for many years with my grandfather's India oil stone, my T4 seems luxurious.
Ken
This thread took a somewhat solem turn. I too am retired. My plan is to check out leaving my granddaughters set for whatever career and college they choose. Beyond that I try and enjoy what I buy not worrying about an eventual end point. It does remind me that I should take some time and teach my son in law how to reload ammunition, sharpen everything and weld. My granddaughters are learning how to cook and bake. When it warms up they will help with smoked meats. They have already asked how to make bacon.
John,
I do not believe there was an attempt to make the topic more solemn. Speaking for myself, I am trying to focus my sharpening purchases to favor those I will actually use. Some things I purchased when I was younger I would not purchase today. I still like to tinker and have accumulated several spare jigs for that purpose. Years ago, I might have purchased a Baldor grinder. That is no longer part of my life plan.
I was fascinated with Stig's comments about how his sharpening is evolving and becoming simpler. They struck deep notesfor me.
Ken
Ken, I am tempted to get a belt sander but I have held off for some reason. I have a few hobbies and I have not been upgrading as new things come out. Photography can be a money pit. My only recent purchase was a stone mill. Since wheat and corn are cheaper unmilled it might eventually pay for itself and the taste of bread made from freshly milled flour is beyond compare.
The other consideration between a T4 and T8 to consider is the duty cycle of the T4 is limited to 30min/hr, the T8 is continuous. When I found out how much I like getting knives sharp I bought a Ken Onion Worksharp belt sander, which does a very good job for $120 sharpener. A few weeks after I bought the Ken Onion I saw the T8 on YouTube and had to have one. I decided to go all in, no half hearted attempts here. I bought the T8 with a few jigs to sharpen mostly knives, scissors and chisels. Also bought the Japanese Wetstone wheel. Confident the T8 will go on for many years . I'm pretty sure I'll be passing it on to one of my sons when I don't want to sharpen knives anymore. Buy the T8.
Tireguy,
You will not go wrong with the T8. However, you should know the real story with the T4 "thirty minute duty cycle".
This online class discusses it from minutes 25 to 28:
https://youtu.be/tXO6YejYdck
Ken
It wasnt my intention to make this thread sombre, but just to share why i eventually decided on a t4 and i have zero regrets about the descision i made.
30 minute cycle time. Hopefully tormek wont read this. When i first got my t4 i spent a couple of sessions of over a good three hours learning on some chisels. I then spent a similar amount of time next day working on plane blades. A few months later I then got the hand tool kits and spent a couple of days, again about four 3 hour sessions on knives, kitchen knives and lots of folding pocket knives and my bowie knife. I also use the scissor platform for freehand grinding of my marking knife and bradawl. A few months later i spent over four hours totally reshaping and sharpening my 2.5lb axe with 20" shaft. In between i have had the machine running for the occasional hour while honing.
I dont use this anywhere near monthly but when i do, it gets some serious running time as i like to spend time focussing on a single task. The only thing i think im noticing is the rubber on the rubber wheel is looking a bit sad and im not sure if this is due to running longer than 30 minutes or because its been stored in a unheated garage. However page 163 of the maual addresses this so im guessing its normal.
I never thought anyone intended to make the thread somber (pardon my colonial spelling).
Several years ago, the US distributor for Tormek asked me to fill in for one of their demonstrator s at a local woodworking show. I would be arriving several hours before they did, so I offered to use my personal T7 and T4 instead of them having to ship them. I knew my T4 would probably be running all day. I knew the real "thirty minute duty" situation, and had no hesitation in using my personal T4.
For what it's worth, I have been following every T4 forum post since it was introduced in 2014.I have never read any posts with burned out T4 motors.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on February 21, 2022, 06:03:41 PM
I never thought anyone intended to make the thread somber (pardon my colonial spelling).
Several years ago, the US distributor for Tormek asked me to fill in for one of their demonstrator s at a local woodworking show. I would be arriving several hours before they did, so I offered to use my personal T7 and T4 instead of them having to ship them. I knew my T4 would probably be running all day. I knew the real "thirty minute duty" situation, and had no hesitation in using my personal T4.
For what it's worth, I have been following every T4 forum post since it was introduced in 2014.I have never read any posts with burned out T4 motors.
Ken
The first time I used my T4, I probably used it for 45 mins, stopped a few times to try stuff, had no idea of the 30 min rule,
I think this is a case of Tormek being conservative - the T4 didn't even get warm.
It's a very capable workhorse (IMHO).
I think Wolfgang addressed it a couple of times, saying this is a warranty issue, but that he's personnaly been using the T4 for hours on end during shows, and that he's never had any issue with it.
The way I understand it, it's Tormek's way of saying "If you go with the T-8, you're covered however you abuse it". Not to imply any sort of risk with the T-4.