I've got a few beautiful carbon steel Chinese cleavers that I love to use in the kitchen. The blade on the big one is about 21cm / 8¼", and the small one, 18cm / 7". Both have almost perfectly straight edges with the slightest of arcs, and they are both quite heavy.
I'll "cut" straight to the point :) Sharpening these blades on my T8 seems to require a lot of practice to get perfect. Even though there is no lifting or pivoting needed at the tips like normal kitchen knives, the narrow width of the wheel compared to the long length (and weight) of the blades makes it challenging to do perfectly level (i.e. flat) pass along the entire length of the blade. I inevitable tilt the blade a fraction of a degree along the pass, and it leaves a tiny groove in the blade that then takes a lot of time to smooth out.
Apart from more practice practice practice, is there any advice on how I can improve my technique?
I wonder if my stance is off, or I should be using a different type of jig that helps to keep the blade perfectly flat against the wheel? (I use the SVM & KJ knife jigs).
Any tips appreciated!
Nico,
I know how you feel about your Chinese cleavers. I have a Chinese vegetable cleaver, a wedding gift from my best friend, which I treasure. My suggestion for better control is to use a US-430. The extra height and extra length give more control.
Ken
Quote from: Nico on September 08, 2023, 10:37:22 AMI've got a few beautiful carbon steel Chinese cleavers that I love to use in the kitchen. The blade on the big one is about 21cm / 8¼", and the small one, 18cm / 7". Both have almost perfectly straight edges with the slightest of arcs, and they are both quite heavy.
I'll "cut" straight to the point :) Sharpening these blades on my T8 seems to require a lot of practice to get perfect. Even though there is no lifting or pivoting needed at the tips like normal kitchen knives, the narrow width of the wheel compared to the long length (and weight) of the blades makes it challenging to do perfectly level (i.e. flat) pass along the entire length of the blade. I inevitable tilt the blade a fraction of a degree along the pass, and it leaves a tiny groove in the blade that then takes a lot of time to smooth out.
Apart from more practice practice practice, is there any advice on how I can improve my technique?
I wonder if my stance is off, or I should be using a different type of jig that helps to keep the blade perfectly flat against the wheel? (I use the SVM & KJ knife jigs).
Any tips appreciated!
One of the reasons for the creation of the FVB (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2635.0) was sharpening cleavers edge trailing, some find it gives better results.
KnifeGrinders has a page (http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_cleaver.htm) on this, with some links to videos.
I make sure I "choke up" on the handle of larger/heavier blades... less likely to tip it.
A Platform Jig (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,3818.0.html) is another option.
Very informative post, CB.
Ken
Quote from: cbwx34 on September 08, 2023, 03:12:21 PMI make sure I "choke up" on the handle of larger/heavier blades... less likely to tip it.
I was about to say that this may seem natural given the height of the blade, but I usually screw my SVM-45 all the way in to minimize the useful length of the shaft. For the KJ-45, that would mean using the secondary stop, but that will make it less stable in yaw...
Thanks for all those tips. I'll be sure to investigate those other jigs. I'm sure there are better solutions when there is no need to tilt or pivot.
I'm sorry, CB, could you explain a bit more what you mean by "choke up" on the handle of these longer knives?
Quote from: Nico on September 09, 2023, 04:39:21 AMThanks for all those tips. I'll be sure to investigate those other jigs. I'm sure there are better solutions when there is no need to tilt or pivot.
I'm sorry, CB, could you explain a bit more what you mean by "choke up" on the handle of these longer knives?
I just mean hold the handle higher up... close to the blade itself.
Tried to sharpen a clever using a T4. I could not achieve the correct blade edge without using the second stopper of the jig, otherwise the bevel tends to widen. Is this acceptable? Any advice on how to avoid widening the bevel on a clever? Appreciate the expert advice.
What you call "widening the bevel" actually comes from the fact that you are lowering the edge angle (All cleavers I have seen up till now having parallel sides).
The lower the angle, the less metal you have to handle an encounter with a hard surface, the faster your edge will become damaged and blunt. So no, I would not sharpen at anything other than the factory angle, which is supposedly suitable for cleaving. Which is what a cleaver is designed for, and not for precise and effortless slicing.
The standard USB, the one that comes with the T-4 and T-8, is notoriously limited when it comes to sharpening knives. The USB-430 has longer legs and a longer support bar, so it better handles longer knives as well as knives with a higher blade, such as cleavers. My cleaver is both too high and too long for the standard USB.
Quote from: blade runner on September 27, 2023, 02:52:01 PMTried to sharpen a clever using a T4. I could not achieve the correct blade edge without using the second stopper of the jig, otherwise the bevel tends to widen. Is this acceptable? Any advice on how to avoid widening the bevel on a clever? Appreciate the expert advice.
Are you talking about using the upper stop on the KJ-45? Yes, that's what it's there for...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFHqQg5wZEg&t=1530s
Hi Nico,
you finally got me triggered and I posted the information about the jig I have made for sharpening axes. It is to be expected, that this works for your problem too.
D.I.Y. Axe and cleaver sharpening jig (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,5385.0.html)
Have fun.
As I read through this thread, it seems like purchasing a US-430 support bar could solve a lot of problems.
I was curious to learn if longer knives could be sharpened with the T4. As part of the research, I purchased a ten inch Victorinox chef knife. Using the US-430 support bar, which I already had, sharpening the long chef knife was not a problem.
Related to this, I modified my SVM-45 and horizontal sleeves of my T4. Honing by grinding away with my T4 was not a problem. I accomplished this for less than $10 USD. I will state that this is done much more efficiently with an FVB.
I consider a US-430 and the brand new MB-102 (which combines the MB-100 and an FVB) essential tools for knife sharpeners. I would purchase them before purchasing other grinding wheels.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on September 28, 2023, 04:18:02 AMI consider a US-430 and the brand new MB-102 (which combines the MB-100 and an FVB) essential tools for knife sharpeners. I would purchase them before purchasing other grinding wheels.
Absolutely. I just bought the US-430 for this very reason.
I agree with everyone here about the need for the US-430. I should have mentioned from the start that I had to buy this for the cleavers, as it was impossible to get the standard USB to work.
I'm in the middle of making my own home-made FVB and I look forward to trying that out with the US-430. The new MB-102 you mentioned Ken also looks like a pretty essential accessory.
I have some axes to grind as well (joke) so aquataur, I will also try your ingenious clamp solution!
Quote from: Ken S on September 28, 2023, 04:18:02 AMUsing the US-430 support bar, which I already had, sharpening the long chef knife was not a problem.
This is a case where the long support bar will be needed.
Quote from: Ken S on September 28, 2023, 04:18:02 AMI modified my SVM-45 and horizontal sleeves of my T4.
This is interesting. Would you let us know more about this?
Quote from: Ken S on September 28, 2023, 04:18:02 AMthe brand new MB-102 (which combines the MB-100 and an FVB)
Now this I call a real step forward. The FVB functionality practically comes into the bargain...
From the picture, the guiding sockets appear a bit shorter than what the FVB or the XB-100 would provide, but I believe it works this way. Had I know this a few months earlier...
This may be the swan song for all FVB derivatives.
Indeed, for face-grinding this tool is indispensable.
Face grinding works with simple stones too, but what arises eventually is the question of trueing the side. The multibase together with the USB is not rigid enough to allow using the trueing diamond.
Hi Folks,
I'm Tony, knife enthusiast from Italy/Switzerland, and this is my firt time on the forum.
Speaking about sharpening cleavers, before I bought the US-430, i used to sharpen them with KJ-45 on the secondary stop. It's not ideal, but it works pretty good with a bit of practice.
The biggest problem is the thightening nub that interferes with the USB. You can easly solve the issue using a short set screw.
Round off the corners of the stone helps a lot. As Nico says, with heavy/bulky cleavers it's easy to lose control and unintenionally tilt the blade, especially if you use the secondary stop.
Having said this, there remains the problem of the angle. Sharpening between 15°-20° dps, as for the chinese cleavers, is not a problem, especially with smaller wheels. But if you have to keep 25° or more, as for the bone choppers, the USB might not be enough.
In the end I bought the extended support...eheheh
Quote from: aquataur on September 29, 2023, 08:36:01 AM...
Quote from: Ken S on September 28, 2023, 04:18:02 AMI modified my SVM-45 and horizontal sleeves of my T4.
This is interesting. Would you let us know more about this?
Do this in a search and you'll find it... basically just replaced all the screws with a socket (grub) screw.
Screenshot 2023-09-29 10.49.12.png
(I think he also ground something off the clamp?)
:)
Haha, I did:
QuoteYour search query did not return any matches.
I don´t understand the prerequisites.
Quote from: aquataur on September 29, 2023, 08:49:16 PMHaha, I did:
QuoteYour search query did not return any matches.
I don´t understand the prerequisites.
Make sure you search the entire forum? (Not just this topic.) Might try the search from the Home page.
Ah thanks that worked.