what's been your experience with the Japanese Stone on your T4

[truthrider]

I recently picked up a used T4 after several years of getting mixed results with flat wet stones (some great, some not so).
I've sharpened one Shun pairing knife so far and had am quite happy with the result.

Since I saved a little $$ buying used, I'm wondering if adding the Japanese Stone would produce much of an improvement.  I'd appreciate hearing your experience.

Also, I do have some good flat stones.  Do any of you finish your knifes on flat stones after using your Tormek.

Thanks

Marty

[cbwx34]

I recently picked up a used T4 after several years of getting mixed results with flat wet stones (some great, some not so).
I've sharpened one Shun pairing knife so far and had am quite happy with the result.

Since I saved a little $$ buying used, I'm wondering if adding the Japanese Stone would produce much of an improvement.  I'd appreciate hearing your experience.

Also, I do have some good flat stones.  Do any of you finish your knifes on flat stones after using your Tormek.

Thanks

Marty

I have an SJ stone and rarely use it, unless I just want a polished bevel.  I guess it just depends on what your goal is, but the edge off the SG wheel (and deburred) is usually enough for me.

I will sometimes set an edge with the Tormek and then switch to a flat stone to refine and/or debur it. (Mainly cause I like sharpening that way sometimes.)

There are many paths to sharp... 

[3D Anvil]

I think what CB is saying is that the SJ wheel will polish your edge bevel, but it won't make the knife sharper. 

[cbwx34]

I think what CB is saying is that the SJ wheel will polish your edge bevel, but it won't make the knife sharper.

Yeah, pretty much... I think it could, but not enough to make it worth it, unless you're sharpening for a specific purpose.  It mostly changes the appearance.

[3D Anvil]

I think what CB is saying is that the SJ wheel will polish your edge bevel, but it won't make the knife sharper.

Yeah, pretty much... I think it could, but not enough to make it worth it, unless you're sharpening for a specific purpose.  It mostly changes the appearance.

My experience is that I don't get a *sharper* edge, but it is a more refined, less toothy edge, which might be preferable for things like fileting fish, or slicing sushi.  Also, sometimes you just want a shiny edge!

Something to keep in mind is that the SJ wheel doesn't do much with high vanadium, wear-resistant steels.  The vanadium carbides are harder than the abrasive in the wheel.

[John Hancock Sr]

I heard that a sharper edge, ie one which has been sharpened to a higher grit, will stay sharp longer. This is due to the higher consistency of the edge. The post below from Sharpening supplies bears this out.

When you see Japanese planes taking ultra fine shavings with very little force one of the things that enables then to do that is irons that have been sharpened with a super high grit.

Given this the JS should provide a more resilient edge. Having said that it depends on what you are using the edge for and how much extra work is involved. Yes, the SJ will give you a sharper more durable edge but whether that is what you want depends on what you are doing with the edge.

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/blogs/articles/is-a-sharper-edge-stronger

[3D Anvil]

I believe that Larrin Thomas has done some testing on edge retention versus grit, and my recollection is that the best results over all came with a 600 grit finishing stone.  I think it depends somewhat on the particular steel.

[truthrider]

Thanks for the info. I'll save the money and pass on the SJ stone.

 I've done some searching but have not been able to find a rock hard felt for the t4. Is anyone aware of one available in the US?

Marty

[Ken S]

Marty,

One possibiity is that any grinding or felt wheel that fits the T8 will also fit the T4. Just remove the water trough. Although the outer widths of the T4 and T8 wheels are 10mm different (40 and 50mm), with the wheel recesses, the width at the bore is almost identical. Thatminimal difference is easily picked up bythe EZYlock thread.

Ken

[tgbto]

Given this the JS should provide a more resilient edge. Having said that it depends on what you are using the edge for and how much extra work is involved. Yes, the SJ will give you a sharper more durable edge but whether that is what you want depends on what you are doing with the edge.

I thinks that's a very important part of what we're trying to do with a Tormek. For kitchen work where the blade works mostly in the direction perpendicular to the cut, I found that a polished edge that's initially "BESS-sharper" than one sharpened only on the SG will eventually feel dull faster.

If you're leaning on the geeky side of sharpening, this article along with this one on the scienceofsharp website are very interesting.

And I can't help but throw in this one as well that talks about burrs.

TLDR: The SJ will make for a very nice-looking bevel. But it will not really translate in better day-to-day performance.

[cbwx34]

...
 I've done some searching but have not been able to find a rock hard felt for the t4. Is anyone aware of one available in the US?

Marty

I ran across this website...

https://www.bestfelt.com/wheels

...they actually had a wheel on Amazon "for the Tormek T-8", so in theory at least, they could make one for the T-4.  (I haven't had any dealings with them myself.)

[v6turbo]

i have it on my T4 - you want the Fine diamond stone in front of it though - I love using it on my ZDP-189

actually my diamond stone says on 90% of the time i only use the stock stone for scissors and to reprofile

i am considering getting more diamond stones the course and medium

[John Hancock Sr]

i am considering getting more diamond stones the course and medium

I got the DC, DF  and DE because of my frustration with HSS. Drills were problematic, especially larger drill bits, and the planner blades were extremely frustrating.

The only reason I would get the SJ would be for plane blades and chisels and I am finding I can get a nice secondary bevel on my Shapton 5,000 grit freehand.

[RichColvin]

I have the SJ-250 Japanese waterstone for my SuperGrind 2000, along with the other Tormek grinding wheels (SG, SB, DC, DF, & DE).  I can pass on my experiences, which may help give you some insight into what you are seeking.

The 4000 grit SJ is significantly smoother than the 1200 grit DE Diamond Extra Fine, so the surface produced by the SJ is correspondingly smoother.  This may matter for the tool you are sharpening, or may not.

The question I believe you should ask is if honing of the tool is sufficient or if the SJ-250 is needed.  For many tools, the honing step is sufficient.

I really like using the SJ to add a micro bevel to tools where honing is not sufficient.  My experience is that the SJ is is not as prone to round over the edge as a honing wheel can (if the honing wheel is not used properly).  I also find that the edge left by the SJ seems sharper, but I've not tested it to be sure.  I can only reply based on the surfaces left by both processes.

Adding a micro bevel takes extra effort and time.  The tools where doing this makes sense include:

• chisels
• plane blades
• wood lathe skews (especially when turning softer woods)

In all these cases, the surface left is stunning.

If you do incorporate the SJ into your sharpening process, I recommend you use it for adding a micro bevel to the tool.  This will significantly decrease the time needed for sharpening.  The micro bevel process is described here:  https://sharpeninghandbook.info/MicroBevels.html