Machine loudness and freehand sharpening on T8

[Madam Cutler]

Hi,

I am about to pull the trigger on purchasing the T8. I've been going back and forth about this purchase for about two years.

Presently, I have a wonderful knife sharpening business, which I started in 2020 and has grown considerably. My knife sharpening knowledge comes from knife making so I sharpen freehand on a belt grinder. I have great results, but the grinder is heavy and loud. I don't mind sharpening outdoors, but I live in New England and it limits locations in the winter.

Hence, the T8 purchase. It appears more transportable, but I'm reading mixed reviews about it's loudness. From videos, it sounds like it's a hum, but I've read complaints about the rattling of the water tray. I've seen this in older forums. Can anyone fill me in on this and your experience? Is it any less louder than a belt grinder?

Also, I've never used a jig or angling device. I sharpen by feel. I figure I will, of course, have to practice on this machine first, but I assume freehand sharpening shouldn't be a an issue once I get the hang of it sharpening on a wheel, instead of belt grinder. In fact, I think it would probably be easier with the tormek.

Appreciate any and all thoughts! Thank you!

[cbwx34]

Hi,

I am about to pull the trigger on purchasing the T8. I've been going back and forth about this purchase for about two years.

Presently, I have a wonderful knife sharpening business, which I started in 2020 and has grown considerably. My knife sharpening knowledge comes from knife making so I sharpen freehand on a belt grinder. I have great results, but the grinder is heavy and loud. I don't mind sharpening outdoors, but I live in New England and it limits locations in the winter.

Hence, the T8 purchase. It appears more transportable, but I'm reading mixed reviews about it's loudness. From videos, it sounds like it's a hum, but I've read complaints about the rattling of the water tray. I've seen this in older forums. Can anyone fill me in on this and your experience? Is it any less louder than a belt grinder?

Also, I've never used a jig or angling device. I sharpen by feel. I figure I will, of course, have to practice on this machine first, but I assume freehand sharpening shouldn't be a an issue once I get the hang of it sharpening on a wheel, instead of belt grinder. In fact, I think it would probably be easier with the tormek.

Appreciate any and all thoughts! Thank you!

The water trough noise can be solved (if you get one that has it), I don't think I'd base a decision on that.  I'm pretty sure it will be quieter than your current setup (if you're still using what's on your website.)

Steve Bottorff (who wrote the book Sharpening Made Easy) did most of his sharpening freehand on the Tormek.  He has a few videos here, to give you some idea.  While I typically use a jig on the Tormek, I occasionally sharpen freehand, so I'm pretty sure that won't be an issue for you either.

Of course you get the advantage of creating less "dust" so sharpening indoors should be easier if/when you need to.  Disadvantage is it will probably be slower than your current setup... especially if you need to, for example, make repairs.  So it may not eliminate having the belt grinder handy? (Or coming up with a way of dealing with it.)  Just something to consider.

Hope that helps!

[tgbto]

I'd fully second @cbwx34's opinion : the Tormek is quiet silent when running.

I often have two of them running at the same time and most of the noise comes from the blade being ground rather than the motor (my water troughs being virbation-free). And even then, it not even close from the noise of a belt sander, as the speed is much lower, and the stone and water dampen the grinding noise. Humming is the right way to describe the sound of a T-8, and a rather low frequency humming at that.

As for freehand sharpening, I don't do that often but it is easier to do than on my belt sander as there is no slack in the stone that would change the angle at the tip. I find the tactile feedback of the SG stone very pleasant.

[Madam Cutler]

Thank you for your responses about my noise concerns and freehand sharpening.

Any thoughts on the diamond wheel vs. the stone grinding wheels. The diamond wheel is pricey, but it doesn't get worn away apparently. Also, less mess? I believe there's a magnetic in the tray that collects the dust. Does it get really sludgy with the grinding wheel? I mention this because I sharpen onsite at stores and businesses and not in a workshop. The only thing I am dealing currently with the belt grinder is the metal dust.

Also, the comment about taking more time to sharpen. Never considered that. Can you expand on that? Right now it takes like 2 - 3 minutes to max to sharpen a very dull 8" chefs knife with a course grit belt, then a fine belt and stropping. Is it the speed of the rotation of the T8 that makes it take longer?

Thank you!!!

[John Hancock Sr]

If you are sharpening a "dull" knife then it only takes a few minutes. If you are reshaping or removing deep nicks than it does take some time. The DC-250 makes short work of really badly worn knives but I would use your belt to fix damaged knives still them go back to the Tormek to finish the edge. I had a knife with a 2-3mm nick and I re-shaped the edge (at 90 deg) on a belt sander then came back to the DC-250 to re-establish the bevel which did not take long, then finished with the DF then DE before stropping.

Freehand should not be an issue for you. The jigs are designed for edge leading but freehand you obviously want to turn it around to edge trailing for convenience.

The speed does make it slower but it is really only noticeable on badly worn or damaged knives.

As for the rattling water tray I had the T7 and now have the T8 and I have not had any rattling but I am sure it could be easily remedied if necessary.

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Madam Cutler. I am impressed with your clever business name and plan. It is no surprise that your business is growing.

The noise issue has an easy fix. The adjustable water trough occasionally gets slightly out of alignment. Sending an email to (support@tormek.se) will solve the noise. Support will instruct you how to realign the lugs to correct the noise. The problem doesn't effect most T8s.

I would share three transportation suggestions:

1) At age seventy three, my Tormek seems to get a little heavier each year. When I have to move it around, I remove the grinding wheel and carry it separately. That cuts the carry weight in half. I can make two lighter trips more easily than one heavier trip. You may have no problem; however, it's a nice backup plan.

2) Jeff Farris, the founder of this forum, traveled extensively to demonstrate the Tormek. Jeff would always dismount the grinding wheel before traveling. This may seem like overkill; however, Jeff never had a problem with his shaft from road bumps.

3) A turkey baster and an empty plastic peanut butter jar are the thrifty New England Yankee way to prevent spillage when changing the water. Siphon out most of the water and remove the grinding sludge with a paper towel. Credit for this idea goes to another forum member, not me.
If your Yankee conscience can tolerate some luxury, the Tormek Rubber Work Mat is the premium way to keep your work area dry. This well made, heavy duty accessory is made for Tormek by the company which makes the Range Rover tires. It is pricier than a cafeteria tray, but much nicer.

With a Tormek, you have the choice of freehand or jig sharpening. Most users who have not developed freehand skills choose jig sharpening. Since you have mastered freehand, you can do either. Even if freehand is your prefered method, it is goid to know both methods. (Other forum members may not agree with my opinion. . .)

Do keep us posted. We all learn more by sharing.

Ken

[tgbto]

I don't have the same experience as John. I own a cheap miniature belt sander, and for a dull knife I can raise a burr with a coarse belt in a matter of two to three passes, in under a minute. In the same amount of time on the Tormek, I would still be adjusting the USB height to find the right angle.

And we're not talking about speed yet. The Tormek, even with a DC coarse diamond wheel will be much slower than the belt sander with a medium belt.

The Tormek will be more consistent (although experienced freehand sharpener get amazing results), create less dust, be more silent, be more precise if used with jigs, but it will be slower for knives, and require (clean/sludgy) water management. Using diamond wheels dry is - as per Tormek instructions - possible but not recommended, and generates dust.

As a reminder, the Tormek was not created as a knife-sharpening equipment. Knives are kind of an afterthought, as the Tormek allows for very precise angle management which helps reaching very high levels of polishing and initial sharpness.

However, as far as day-to-day cooks are concerned, initial sharpness is not as important as edge retention. An experienced freehand sharpener does not need a Tormek to set such an angle on even a very blunt knife that it will perform well initially and in the long run.

[RichColvin]

Madam Cutler,

Over the 20+ years I've been using a Tormek, I have found that there are very few singularity correct answers or approaches.  If you find that sharpening free-hand works best (or, as I call it, "Jed Clampet Style"), then do what works for you.

[cbwx34]

Thank you for your responses about my noise concerns and freehand sharpening.

Any thoughts on the diamond wheel vs. the stone grinding wheels. The diamond wheel is pricey, but it doesn't get worn away apparently. Also, less mess? I believe there's a magnetic in the tray that collects the dust. Does it get really sludgy with the grinding wheel? I mention this because I sharpen onsite at stores and businesses and not in a workshop. The only thing I am dealing currently with the belt grinder is the metal dust.

Also, the comment about taking more time to sharpen. Never considered that. Can you expand on that? Right now it takes like 2 - 3 minutes to max to sharpen a very dull 8" chefs knife with a course grit belt, then a fine belt and stropping. Is it the speed of the rotation of the T8 that makes it take longer?

Thank you!!!

I'd go with the standard wheel... and never worry about grading it back and forth to change the grit... just leave it in its "natural" state.  It will still need to be trued occasionally, but that can be done at home.  While the diamond stone won't change diameter, it will still "wear" and will need to be replaced over time.

As for time... I ran across a company a few years back Jansen Sharpening, that from what I could tell, did most of the sharpening and repairs on a Tormek, set up at a farmer's market.  Might be worth trying to contact them for some real world experience?  I didn't mean the Tormek was necessarily "slow", just slower than you're probably used to.  I guess it depends on the volume you do in a day.

[John_B]

I use the natural state for almost all of my initial sharpening, however, I do use the fine side and/or a diamond plate for finishing before honing. I don't do large a volume of knives at a time.

[tgbto]

Aside from specific situations where I want a very fine finish (such as sujihikis), I find that grinding on the SG in its natural state and honing with the Tormek compound is the best speed/sharpness compromise. In addition, I think the bite from the toothier edge works wonders (and is durable) for vegetables.

When I know the precise edge angle, or use the sharpie trick, it is a matter of 3-4 minutes per knife, not including computations and/or USB setup.

[tgbto]

Aside from specific situations where I want a very fine finish (such as sujihikis), I find that grinding on the SG in its natural state and honing with the Tormek compound is the best speed/sharpness compromise. In addition, I think the bite from the toothier edge works wonders (and is durable) for vegetables.

When I know the precise edge angle, or use the sharpie trick, it is a matter of 3-4 minutes per knife, not including computations and/or USB setup. So I guess that's kind of a lower limit on what I could expect if I sharpened freehand.

[Madam Cutler]

I just signed in and saw all these wonderful responses! I love the Jed Clampett-style of knife sharpening!

I got the T8 last week and unboxed it this morning. I have mixed feelings...and water everywhere!

Once I collect my thoughts, I'll post my many questions.

thank you, thank you for taking the time to share your experiences.

[Dan]

I got the T8 last week and unboxed it this morning. I have mixed feelings...and water everywhere!

See this recent thread for more thoughts about the water "problem" 
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?msg=39853
Danny