Marker method vs Calcapp for honing?

[TireguyfromMA]

I'm curious how accurate the marker method along the blade to check the honing angle compares to using the Calcapp?  Do some of you just go by "feel" when honing, use the Calcapp, or the marker method?

[tgbto]

When I use a calculator for calculator for grinding (to reset the angle, or when the knife was previously sharpened with a set angle), I use the calculator for honing.

When I use the marker method for grinding, I hone freehand by "feel" ; actually a combination of visual cues (the tiny black stuff that flies off, mostly), sound (there's a point when it sounds just right) and touch (if the honing angle is too shallow, I feel like the knife is sliding over the wheel, to steep and it feels like it is scraping it).

I usually use the sharpie method only to sharpen a friend's knife quickly. I do it ungraded SG then freehand honing. It leaves a rougher edge than fine SG or SJ then controlled honing, but it won't enter a BESS/hairsplitting contest anyway, and it will feel sharp enough longer without touching it up.

Nick.

<EDIT> Actually, I have used controlled honing after sharpie grinding a few times for friends who wanted to keep the exact angle on their dear knives. I used TormekCalc to reverse-compute the edge angle, honed using the FVB and TormekCalc at the same angle +0.5 to +1°, and double-checked the honing with a microscope. Then I laser-engraved the spine of the knife with the angle (in case I lost my TormekCalc history) </EDIT>

[cbwx34]

I'm curious how accurate the marker method along the blade to check the honing angle compares to using the Calcapp?  Do some of you just go by "feel" when honing, use the Calcapp, or the marker method?

I would think that using a calculator would be more accurate than either the marker or "by feel", but whether that matters or not is a different question?

Personally, I have gone to honing more using the guide vs. freehand, I get a better edge, and it seems a bit easier.  Since I set the edge with a calculator, I set the honing angle the same way... (for most knives, just a couple degrees higher).  But, I think you can achieve a "more than adequate" edge with any of the methods.

[Ken S]

" I think you can achieve a "more than adequate" edge with any of the methods."
(quoted from CB)

I agree. I believe a versatile sharpener should be proficient in all three methods, and use whichever one fits the particular situation best.

In good machine shop practices we have well defined tolerances for things like fits (sliding, friction, etc) and clearances for things like thread fits. These involve two surfaces coming into contact with each other. With knife bevels, we have only one surface, the knife itself. I don't see the need for such precision in bevel angles. Will a 15° bevel angle cut better than 15° 30' or 14° 30'?

Ken

[Sir Amwell]

I may be wrong in this but.........
I think when it comes to honing, especially on a leather wheel which has some give in it, the sharpie method becomes somewhat unreliable.
1 or 2 degrees either side of a precise honing angle will still take all the sharpie off leading one to think that the desired angle is being achieved.
I either stick to controlled angle with a calculator or free hand relying on the tactile feedback from the leather wheel as a guide when honing.
I find the sharpie method much more useful for initial grinding to match an existing angle or for tools like chisels where it is a really good way to indicate how you are matching the original bevel.

[TireguyfromMA]

Thank you all for your responses.  Most of the time I'm using the marker method for grinding and lately I'll try out both methods for honing, Sharpie the blade edge, then adjust the FVB height/distance to just get to the very edge the blade on the leather wheel coated with the TORMEK honing compound.  On a Wustof or Henkels I usually see a BESS in the 140's. If the BESS reading is in the 150's, I'll try a few more passes over the honing wheel by hand, thinking I didn't quite get to the burr with the first passes. Sometimes this works, I get a lower BESS reading, and sometimes not...I still have so much to learn.. .  Part of the problem is I'm reading Vadim's book about deburring, it really is the art of getting a edge that stays sharp for a long time, but it can also be a rabbit hole without all the tools that Vadim used.