Starting over thoughts

[Ken S]

No. The idea was mine. If you don't like it, which is your right, I will take the FLAK. It obviously is not a good fit for all users; I never thought it would be. I still believe it would be useful for some of our members. How many of our members are "knife only", and how many of them wish they could cut down their sharpening time per knife?

Ken

[Ken S]

I would like to examine the complaints against the T2. I do this to approach a better understanding, not to try to prove a point.

First, I would like to examine what we call a "pro sharpener". would a pro sharpener be expected to sharpen essentially everything in the scope of the Tormek? Including 22mm drill bits; molding cutters; and things like long thickness planer blades seems like a very constraining definition. In this case, the T8 is the logical choice as the primary machine. I would also choose the T8 (or T4) for a sharpener whose bag of tricks included chisels, bench plane blades, and knives. depending upon the percentage of sharpening was knives, I might lean toward the T4/8 or the T2.

The T2 is almost as pricey, almost as large, and much less flexible. I won't comment on "pricey". Admittedly, all Tormek products are priced as the high quality item they are. the T2, like the T4, comes in at about half the weight of the T8. and, flexibility depends on how one defines it.
Admittedly, the T2 will not sharpen chisels. However, it will handily sharpen knife and kitchen related items. It can make quick work of protruding bolsters andXXXXXX (sorry, I can't remember the name of non steel knives)knives. It also sharpens such kitchen items as curved food processor knives and mandolin knives. It is flexible within its intended design parameters.

   •   Single purpose, no scissors or woodworking tools sharpening ever.
   •   Pivoting only, no way to implement the "lifting" action that is advised with the T-8/T-4.
   •   No 4000-grit.
   •   No precise angle setting.
   •   More heterogeneous scratch pattern.
   •   Warranty limitation for professional sharpening businesses

I leave it up to you to evaluate how important these factors are for you and your sharpening. I am not saying do not purchase a T8 or T4. If your sharpening needs requires sharpening scissors and/or woodworking tools, this is a no brainer.

Pivoting only? I can not believe that the Tormek design team would have casually glossed over this. still, I believe  this is a question worthy of a future discussion. The discussion should include the intended purpose of the knives being sharpened. Are they professional knives designed for working or knife block princesses designed to look pretty?

No 4000 grit? The SJ caused quite a stir when it was first introduced.  I wonder how many early devotees are still using it in a time means money environment?

No precise angle measurement: among my collection of machinist's tools, I have a set of small plates precisely ground to varying degrees of surface polish. Often the blueprints call for a part to be ground to one of these established surfaces. this serves two purposes, making sure the part is sufficiently polished AND that the machinist does not built excessive cost into the part by overbuilding it. I have heard forum chatter about trying to achieve "tenth of a degree" bevel accuracy. What is the purpose of this, except to inflate the sharpener's ego?

This reply is already too long.

Ken

[cbwx34]

No. The idea was mine. If you don't like it, which is your right, I will take the FLAK. It obviously is not a good fit for all users; I never thought it would be. I still believe it would be useful for some of our members. How many of our members are "knife only", and how many of them wish they could cut down their sharpening time per knife?

Ken

I'll exit with a post directly from a Tormek rep...

...
For a sharpening business, we don't recommend the T-2.
A T-8 with the jig system with SVM-00/45/140 can sharpen way more models of knifes. A knife sharpened and honed with the leather wheel gives a sharper knife than most common new knifes.

This is why we recommend the T-2 to restaurants and chefs, who wanted a fast and reliable machine, that gives them sharp knifes 24/7 in the kitchen.
...

(The whole post is probably worth a read.)

[Ken S]

CB,

You have chosen a good exit point. Yes, that quote was typical of Stig in 2017. However, Stig has been evolving since then. He has been influenced by the reactions of the Swedish Culinary Team to the T2. Admittedly, these are working, Michelin quality working chefs. while I don't know how they would do sharpening pretty princess knives, they certainly know their way around working knives.

I think Stig has made a giant step forward.

i believe we have squeezed as much useful juice as this issue has to offer. Let's move on.

Ken

[tgbto]

With your permission, I'd like to comment on a few issues you raised during your long post, as it feels a bit strange to me to rebutt arguments in bulk and then ask to move on.

I would like to examine the complaints against the T2.

No complaints, really, just reacting to the advice in the initial post which I honestly think could mislead an aspiring pro sharpener.

First, I would like to examine what we call a "pro sharpener". would a pro sharpener be expected to sharpen essentially everything in the scope of the Tormek? Including 22mm drill bits; molding cutters; and things like long thickness planer blades seems like a very constraining definition. In this case, the T8 is the logical choice as the primary machine.

I fail to see why someone would have to need "everything" the T-8 does to warrant buying a T-8. I'm not sure many people even on this forum sharpen "everything" the T-8 can sharpen. So, "Everything" ? Most probably not. Scissors ? Chisels ? I'd say...probably ? 

I won't comment on "pricey".

I'm not sure I said the T-8 was pricey as an absolute statement. I'm saying the price difference does not appear to me as a real deterrent for the T-8 option, especially in the context of a "pro sharpener". Especially is one has to keep in mind that they might need a "supplemental" T-8.

Are they professional knives designed for working or knife block princesses designed to look pretty?

Then if the "pro sharpener"'s target market is "kitchen knifes and rotary blades only, where the customer doesn't really care about how the edge looks in the end", I have no objections anymore.

No precise angle measurement [snip] I have heard forum chatter about trying to achieve "tenth of a degree" bevel accuracy. What is the purpose of this, except to inflate the sharpener's ego?

Not trying to judge the sharpener's (or anyone's) character or ego. Precise angle setting (not measurement, I agree no one really cares what the actual angle is to a 10th of a degree) allows to more quickly find the setting that allows to reproduce an existing angle with the sharpie method. Which in turn is key for sharpening speed because there is minimal material removal.

[Ken S]

I am all for constructive questioning; that's how we grow. I have purchased two FVB's, one from Knife Grinders and one from Colvin Tools. I have nothing but good comments about either of them. I do not remember reading any tolerance specifications or tests with either of them. I have confidence in Rich, as I did in Vadim. I also have confidence in Tormek.

I will be curious to read the posted forum thoughts about the MB-102 in a year or two.

Ken