Using the T4 as a deburring and honing station?

[LarK]

Hello friends!
Just found a shop here in Sweden that offers sharpening services but also sells stuff for sharpeners. Apparently in their shop they use first a T8 for sharpening and then use a dual leatherwheel setup on a T4 as a deburring and polishing station. The leatherwheels are different in texture and stiffnes for different honing agents.
What do you think about this approach?
I already have a standard leather wheel, one extra with chromiumoxide and a composite wheel.
What I like about these wheels is that they are 250mm diam. Maybe it would be nice to just keep the composite wheel on the T8 and use the T4 setup with 2 full size 250mm leather wheels? Is this setup worth it?
Any input is appreciated 😊👍

[Ken S]

Interesting thought, Lark. Incidentally, for those of you who are not aware of it, The T4 and T8 main shafts are the same diameter and thread size. And, although both the T4 and T2 are designed to use 200 mm grinding wheels, a 250 mm wheel also fits if the water trough is removed. And, the T2/4 shaft turns at 120 RPM, as opposed to 100 RPM for the T8.

Combining a T8 and a T4 opens up many possibilities for a Tormeker with imagination. (So would two of the same models.) We live in interesting times. Please keep us posted.

Ken

[LarK]

Exactly my thoughts aswell Ken! It is a cheaper way to complement my T8 and Im seriously thinking about this setup. Would be an easier choice if I hadn't already gotten extra standard leatherwheels for my T8... But yes the increased rpm of the T4 is also a plus.
They seem to have a cooperation with Tormek as they are selling the T4 barebones with the two leather wheels, extended double bar and the FVB, even some diamondemulsion and a simple jig measure block for  under 300 USD.
I just have to justify the cost for this setup... 😂
The owner did a short video on youtube and claims to get below 100 Bess as a standard which seems great!

[John_B]

LarK, I have found that nearly all of my customers are happy with the sharpness I obtain using the standard setup with a T-8. I return their knives considerably sharper than when they were brand new out of the box. For my knives and one other customer I use an additional leather wheel and 1µ diamonds. I personally would not make this investment unless there was some demand for the service. It does sound like a good idea though.

[LarK]

I agree with your input John 👍
My customers are happy aswell with my results. This would however reduce my time per knife and give a more even result when deburring. Today I mostly do freehand deburring on my T8 and I really like the feeling of that and the craftmanship but at the same time I know my limitations.
But yes I will not be investing in this atm. I might in the future since it includes an fvb and other good to have stuff 😊

On a side note: On the site they sell a teflon tape to put on the guide bar to reduce friction and give a steadier grind. What are your thoughts on this? I have noted a small drag between my guide bar and pin pivot collar. Might this help?
//Kristian

[cbwx34]

...
On a side note: On the site they sell a teflon tape to put on the guide bar to reduce friction and give a steadier grind. What are your thoughts on this? I have noted a small drag between my guide bar and pin pivot collar. Might this help?
//Kristian

A tiny drop of oii/teflon lube/etc. rubbed on the guide bar, will do the job.  I'd pass on the tape.

Also, one thought on the T-4 with two wheels that came to mind... they are very close together, and I think that may be a problem, depending on how you're planning to use them.  If it's an option, you may want to look at a buffer with a set of paper wheels?

[John_B]

I found that honing with the FVB improved my sharpening but it also added a consistency akin to what you get when sharpening.

[LarK]

Great inputs. I will definitely add some teflon lube to my guide bar and test it out! Thanks for the tip!   
Concerning the distance between the wheels on the T4 I dont see this as a major problem for most of the knives I sharpen and it is pretty easy to dismount if needed. But a valid point idd 
I would really like a buffer with paper wheels aswell, but I like the slow speed and portability of the T4 and less noise.

[Swemek]

I feel a little stupid really, since i'm just a hobbyist but i got an impulse last week and purchased a T8. My plan was to sell my T4 and my DF-200. But instead i moved the T8 honing wheel and MB-102 to my T4 and i was sold, since i mostly sharpen knives.

It's even more fun when i don't have to lift off the stone while honing.

The T8 Org isn't cheap, but i must say that it is for the most part a better deal than T4 Org. I do love the water trough lift, so convenient and the wider stone area 50 mm instead of 40 mm makes a big difference.

Also the footprint isn't much larger than the T4.

EDIT:
I just made this - Mora Tanto. For the things I use this kind of knife for, I do think I'll prefer the tip like this.

[cbwx34]

...
EDIT:
I just made this - Mora Tanto. For the things I use this kind of knife for, I do think I'll prefer the tip like this.

Looks good (what did it look like before?)... you should post how you did it.

[Swemek]

Looks good (what did it look like before?)... you should post how you did it.

You're right.

[sharpening_weasel]

I started out my little side gig/sharpening business with a t4, then went to the t8 when I surpassed the duty cycle and burnt myself on the top of the t4. Now, I use the t4 with the sg-200, and the t8 with the sj-250. Interestingly this gives a sort of flat over hollow grind effect due to the different radii, is faster, and results in a polished toothy kind of edge that's fantastic for chef's knives. It's fast, too, but moving from the t4 to the t8 I need to find the proper bevel again, which is slow. Now, though, with the KS 123, I think this setup will be far faster. I look forward to recieving mine. All this is a long winded way of saying- the t4 -> t8 move is nicely efficient. Cheers and happy sharpening.
 

[cbwx34]

I started out my little side gig/sharpening business with a t4, then went to the t8 when I surpassed the duty cycle and burnt myself on the top of the t4. Now, I use the t4 with the sg-200, and the t8 with the sj-250. Interestingly this gives a sort of flat over hollow grind effect due to the different radii, is faster, and results in a polished toothy kind of edge that's fantastic for chef's knives. It's fast, too, but moving from the t4 to the t8 I need to find the proper bevel again, which is slow. Now, though, with the KS 123, I think this setup will be far faster. I look forward to recieving mine. All this is a long winded way of saying- the t4 -> t8 move is nicely efficient. Cheers and happy sharpening.
 

You might want to take a look at Gilles post (and associated spreadsheet) going from a smaller to a larger wheel.  (It actually might be the reason for your "polished toothy" edge.)

[sharpening_weasel]

That's interesting, but not something I think is happening with mine. I ensure that I see two "rails" of polish from the sj stone, one on the heel, and one on the edge when changing over from the 200 to the 250. I use visual confirmation rather than specific angles here, which I think negates the heel only polishing. In addition, I've experimented with that exact same problem, and have found that there is such a minuscule amount of metal to be removed that even if the sj250 starts only touching the heel, it quickly removes enough material to polish all the way to the edge. I typically don't mess around with calculators, calipers, formulas etc, and am content with the results I get with the angle master and visual inspection alone. Most of the knives I take in are as dull as butter knives, and when they leave, I can slice free hanging hairs with them.

[cbwx34]

That's interesting, but not something I think is happening with mine. I ensure that I see two "rails" of polish from the sj stone, one on the heel, and one on the edge when changing over from the 200 to the 250. I use visual confirmation rather than specific angles here, which I think negates the heel only polishing. In addition, I've experimented with that exact same problem, and have found that there is such a minuscule amount of metal to be removed that even if the sj250 starts only touching the heel, it quickly removes enough material to polish all the way to the edge. I typically don't mess around with calculators, calipers, formulas etc, and am content with the results I get with the angle master and visual inspection alone. Most of the knives I take in are as dull as butter knives, and when they leave, I can slice free hanging hairs with them.

You're correct, it would only apply if you were trying to match angles between the two stones.  (And it sounds like you're experienced enough to overcome the AngleMaster shortcomings when it comes to knives.)