Sabtier Damast does not work

[Pietje]

Hi guys!
My Sabatier Chef knife Damast doesnt work.
It is sharp with 20° and goes through paper with a smooth whisper. My finger did it cut too. Damned.
On chives it is working perfect, with onions it fails. Bell pepper is so lala.
I have no meat to test it at this time.
Why does it work so different?
Because the thickness of the blade?
Did I made a mistake? What could be a solution?

Thanks
Pietje

[micha]

Hi Pietje,
are we talking about 20° per side or 20° included?

Mike

[tgbto]

Hello Pietje

Having come of age near Thiers, I decided at the time to go local and bought a full series of Sabatier knives. They are now used only when I know they will get abused. I couldn't decide if the shape of the blade (thick indeed) or the steel itself was to blame, or both, but they don't seem to retain their sharpness after only a few cuts AND they seem to wedge through food before they can even cut it. The best example of this is when cutting carrots. I tried thining the blade on a height of 5mm, but I get the steel is to soft anyway.

I think KG's studies ranks them as the poorest brand, edge-retentionwise.

I could never part with my japanese knives.

Cheers,

Nick.

[Pietje]

Hi Pietje,
are we talking about 20° per side or 20° included?

Mike

Thanks for the interest in my problem.
I meaned 20° per side. Do you call it Cuttingangle? And the pther one is the bladeangle?
NExt time I try to be more acurately.
Pietje

[micha]

Pietje,

you're welcome, that's why we're all here, I guess. Just for that kind of nerd thoughts...

I think 20 dps is quite an obtuse angle for a kitchen knife used for vegetables, which would explain the different results with onions vs. chives. I'd try someting between 13 and 15 dps instead and repeat the onion experiment.

The edge retention study that Nick mentioned was also very interesting - you may find the provisional results here: http://knifegrinders.com.au/CATRA-report.htm. Quite a surprise regarding the Sabatier!

As for the naming conventions - I think there was some some diagram around, but can't find it right now. Usually we talk about 'dps' (=degrees per side), which leaves little room for misunderstanding.

Mike

[Ken S]

Mike,
Degrees per side seems very clear to me. Good idea.
Ken

[cbwx34]

...
As for the naming conventions - I think there was some some diagram around, but can't find it right now. Usually we talk about 'dps' (=degrees per side), which leaves little room for misunderstanding.

Mike

[John_B]

Older and older style European knives were sharpened quite often at 20° per side. This was because many of the older techniques were based on a chopping motion rather than slicing and for edge durability. These were the pre internet days before Japanese knives filled the market. Today slicing is taught alongside of chopping and a thinner blades sharpened between 13°-17° are the norm. If you are interested watch some video on Japanese knife technique and compare them with French knife technique.

[Pietje]

I think 20 dps is quite an obtuse angle for a kitchen knife used for vegetables, which would explain the different results with onions vs. chives. I'd try someting between 13 and 15 dps instead and repeat the onion experiment.

The edge retention study that Nick mentioned was also very interesting - you may find the provisional results here: http://knifegrinders.com.au/CATRA-report.htm. Quite a surprise regarding the Sabatier!
Mike

Thanks for your hint. I have changed to 14 dps and used a HardRock for deburring. Now it works well with an onion. I check out, how long the sharpness is standing.
The report is awesome. The knife was expensive.

Pietje