What is really needed for deburring...

[jvh]

Hello,

a lot of posts recently mentioned that for succesful deburring is necessary to have paper wheels, felt wheels, diamond sprays etc. I'll go against the flow, because it's possible to achieve exceptional sharp edges without any honing. With proper technique, exact angle settings and pressure when sharpenning you can get burrless apex and use honing for the final blade finishing but not for burr removing. Please note that this is not against felt wheels etc., it is just an advice that it is possible to achieve much better results than is expected, with proper technique only. Maybe it can help you to save some money to other toys.

I have to say that a good microscope is recomended for the observations what's going on the edge while sharpening. At this moment I have one with magnification 120x only which isn't too much to see a small burr, but it's still helpful if you know what are you looking for. Higher magnification (300x) is much better.

Now a few links to Pavol Šandor youtube channel, where is shown how the edge looks after sharpening, the last used stone is Tyrolit F1200 (3 µm), which is equivalent grit to JIS 4000 = Tormek SJ-250. On older videos (with tests) is the last used stone Tyrolit F400 (17 µm), which is equivalent grit to JIS 1000. I emphasize that no honing is used for the tested knives!

Finally, I would like to say that his videos inspire me a lot to think about my sharpening technique, changes and equipment which I really need. I am still far away from his skill but I hope that someday...

Spyderco - BOW RIVER - 8Cr13MoV - 30°: https://youtu.be/NXz7WB_qhqk?t=87
OPINEL 10 Carbone - "V" sharpening 30°: https://youtu.be/Z9TZ6rDXUIo?t=36
Rockstead RYO ZDP189 66.7HRc - "V" sharpening 35°: https://youtu.be/Iz5POMT0878?t=200

MORA FROSTS 9153PG 30° Tormek Tyrolit 17µm: https://youtu.be/OpeIyJXSebk?t=25


jvh

[ABall]

Thanks jvh, looking forward to see these links, very helpful. I myself have been a bit obsessive with burr removal but I just wanted to say something about microscopes, I bought a 7 dollar scope on the recommendation of someone here and I dont think I will be looking any further. I tried to take a picture with my phone but it wont focus, the image itself looking through the Loupe is crystal and in focus. Ive run this knife along my SJ-250 about four times per side at the original angle and this loupe tells me it hasnt yet removed all the burr, its pretty clean though. I best not post a link but its a Kingmass 60x Loupe. I will leave it upto those that are thinking of buying a scope to decide if this is what they want to see. For anyone who wants to take nice pic this isnt for you, its not designed for that but its a great little handheld thing that I find comes in very handy.
Alan

[Hannsi1957]

Now a few links to Pavol Šandor youtube channel, where is shown how the edge looks after sharpening, the last used stone is Tyrolit F1200 (3 µm), which is equivalent grit to JIS 4000 = Tormek SJ-250. On older videos (with tests) is the last used stone Tyrolit F400 (17 µm), which is equivalent grit to JIS 1000. I emphasize that no honing is used for the tested knives!


[/quote]

I have to correct you a little bit. 3 micron corresponds to approx. 6500-6800 grit. the japan stone from Tormek has approx. 4000 grit. thus 3 micron is clearly finer. However, even a 3 micron stone will always produce a burr. removing this is the great art. even knives that still have such a micro burr can be very sharp. however, you will only get the last bit of sharpness when this micro burr is also removed. and this is not possible without felt or leather wheel or stroping.
any stone, no matter how fine, will produce a burr.

cheers Hanns

[jvh]

I have to correct you a little bit. 3 micron corresponds to approx. 6500-6800 grit. the japan stone from Tormek has approx. 4000 grit. thus 3 micron is clearly finer. However, even a 3 micron stone will always produce a burr. removing this is the great art. even knives that still have such a micro burr can be very sharp. however, you will only get the last bit of sharpness when this micro burr is also removed. and this is not possible without felt or leather wheel or stroping.
any stone, no matter how fine, will produce a burr.

cheers Hanns

Hello,

I have to correct it too - see Grit tables below. FEPA F1200 (3 µm average) is equivalent to JIS 4000.

In videos is explicitely stated that no honing was done (due same conditions for following tests). There is also no trace of honing on the edge during microscopy view (300x magnification). There are plenty of videos with other knives which are burr-free sharpened without honing. Everything is well documented so how you can say it is not possible?

With proper technique, together with exact angles setting I am able to eliminate burr formed during sharpening too, so I can confirm it is possible. The problem is that I have a microscope with 120x magnification only so I cannot verify apex precisely for micro burr. But it is my limitation, not for Pavol Šandor. In any case I am working on my technique and I try to sharpen burr-free apex before honing. I noticed positive impact to edge lifetime, which is confirmed by several hunters who using knives intensively for skinning, disembowelling and meat slicing. And yes, it could be a sign that I made something wrong before, but now I get consistent results after honing and don't need to made "after-magic" with higher angles, leather strop, felt wheel etc. But as usual, the choice is yours.


jvh

[chefknifeworks]

Where did you obtain that first chart???