Best diamond wheel video to date

[Ken S]

I just discovered the new Tormek video covering the diamond wheels. Sebastien does this video like the online classes. He does it with Håkan Persson, who is both CEO and an abrasives expert, both in diamond and CBN. He discusses the reasons for the wheel construction and the importance of using light pressure. This video is certainly worth watching; I will study it several times.

Two thoughts:
It would have been nice if it was done a year or two ago.
The diamond wheels are first rate. I wish Tormek would make them in 200mm for the T4.

https://youtu.be/38c95D6z5D8

Ken

[John S]

Ken,

Thank you for the link. All tormek owners owe it to themselves to watch the video. Good education.

It makes sense about CBN vs diamond. As soon as I start regularly sharpen and make some money I may just purchase a diamond wheel.

John

[jeffs55]

Hakan (sp)said the wheels last forever. Yet the grinding surface is constantly broken down into an ever finer grit. It eventually becomes another honing wheel but at what point? If they outlast the stones it would still be a win though, sort of. You have no ability to change the grit so you need more than one stone unless you begin with already sharp tools. Does anyone know if the leather honing wheel or the composite that I read about will remove the scratches from the finest diamond stone?

[Ken S]

Jeff,

I think you are partially correct with your comments. I watched the video again to make sure I heard Håkan correctly. Just after ten minutes, Håkan stated that the diamond wheels, if used carefully, could last "almost forever". I think both parts of his statement are important. I liked the explanation about the diamond coating being only one layer thick and how fragile it is, especially before it is broken in. That is a major adjustment for those of us accustomed to the SG, where heavy grinding pressure is frequently used.

Later in the video, just before thirteen minutes, Håkan does agree with Sebastien when he talks about the diamond wheels lasting "forever". I think he was essentially being polite, rather than stating his position. I believe this statement from the Tormek website is a more accurate record of Tormek's assessment of the longevity of the diamond wheels. The keywords are"exceptional durability".

"The Tormek Diamond wheels have been developed specifically for our Water Cooled Sharpening System. Thanks to the low speed of our machines, they are ideal for use with diamond wheels because no heat is generated. The Tormek Diamond Wheels have exceptional durability, a consistent sharpening ability and always retain the full size diameter. Users who frequently sharpen the same tool will benefit from this feature as it simplifies both the setting and sharpening." (Source: tormek.com  Diamond wheels overview)

Both diamond and CBN wheels have a break in period before settling in to their "correct" grid. That's no secret. After the initial break in period, the wear time is much longer. In a very honest statement from Knife Grinders, they state that they do not sell a 600 grit CBN wheel because the 400 grit wheel eventually acts like a 600 grit wheel. I do not recall ever reading or hearing where either Tormek or Knife Grinders mentioning enough wear over time to cut like a much finer grit wheel or honing wheel.

The SG is the fastest wearing wheel of Tormek's lineup. Jeff, you have used your Tormek for many years. How many SG wheels have you worn out? For more occasional users like me, my SG may well last as long as I do. I expect my diamond wheels to last considerably longer. For a mortal like me, that starts to resemble "forever", at least close enough to forever for me.

Ken

[jeffs55]

The ad says "diamonds are forever" but maybe not. I watched the video and wrote this on YT,
Jeff Stanley
1 day ago
He indicates that the diamond wheel will last years with reasonable care, as will a lot of things. However, he also indicated that the diamond "wears" and gets finer over time. It must one day become a honing wheel then and no longer a grinding wheel.
This is the reply from Tormek.

Tormek Sharpening Innovation
7 minutes ago
Hi Jeff, Yes it's correct the diamond will over the time of years get finer and finer as it wears. However diamond is the hardest material so it's very durable. Where the line between a honing wheel and grinding wheel is drawn is difficult to say. The idea with the honing wheel is to remove burr and the materials in a honing wheel are often a bit flexible which makes it easier to avoid damaging the edge when honing.
I hope that everyone knows that I did not mean forever literally as in millions of years. However, if say it lasted for 30 minutes use per day for five years like it might in a professional shop; I would call that close enough. That would literally be a lifetime for me as I would never come close to that...............ever. Tormek will not say but they should know. All they have to do is turn on one or 100 Tormeks and let it grind a piece of steel with a clock and calendar close by. When the wheel becomes worn out, write it down.

[Ken S]

Jeff,

What would your best guess be for comparing the useful working life of a diamond wheel with the SG? A diamond wheel costs approximately twice the price of an SG. The diamond wheel also cuts faster and can handle harder metals up to carbide and ceramic knives. For now, lets just concentrate on longevity. If the diamond wheel lasts more than twice as long as the SG, it is a better bargain. Somewhere in the calculation one should include the benefits of never changing diameter or needing to be trued. To be fair, one should also mention being able to use the stone grader with the SG.

Ken

[John_B]

Jeff,

What would your best guess be for comparing the useful working life of a diamond wheel with the SG? A diamond wheel costs approximately twice the price of an SG. The diamond wheel also cuts faster and can handle harder metals up to carbide and ceramic knives. For now, lets just concentrate on longevity. If the diamond wheel lasts more than twice as long as the SG, it is a better bargain. Somewhere in the calculation one should include the benefits of never changing diameter or needing to be trued. To be fair, one should also mention being able to use the stone grader with the SG.

Ken

Ken,

Your analysis is based on only needing one diamond wheel. For someone that gets knives in various stages of dullness would you not need all three to effectively sharpen them? This is one thing that I like about the SG stone is that it can be quite coarse after truing to very fine after applying good pressure to the grading stone.

[jeffs55]

If a diamond wheel lasts twice as long as the SG and costs twice as much, it needs to last more than twice as long to be a better value. If it lasts only twice as long for twice as much it is the same thing. If you have to change grits then you have to have another grade of diamond wheel. As long as each lasts even slightly longer than its stone counterpart and one is twice the price of the other, the longer lasting is the better value. The diamond would seem to be better value on the basis of time savings alone in that you don't have to account for an ever decreasing diameter in setting for your edge. I am really not concerned with price/ value anyway. I have bought things just because they were easier to use. I may have infinite time but I don't want to use it doing some drudgery. I just want a real world approximation of how long a diamond wheel should be expected to last. Have you ever watched Project Farm videos on YT? He does this sort of comparison all the time. Its just a question that I am sure has crossed the mind of others.