200x Microscope under £100? UK

[RickKrung]

...snip...
Steady on Rick, you've only asked one "guy" questions and it's pretty clear he's using a cheap ass microscope,  I would love it to be a panacea for all our ills but it's just a cheap Chinese product, I would also like it to be the scope we are looking for but I dont think van has any preconceptions of it been a high end device, he has said as such....  I dont think van is going to answer all your questions even though I would like to know those answers too...

No worries man.  Hard to get worked up about someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field
In all of what is described, it can be confusing to figure out what they are talking about, but it has very little to do with the quality of the scope.  Sure, whatever depth of the subject that is in the depth of field is blurry due to poor quality, that cannot be altered and simply must be accepted as part of the choices made in selected/using such a device.  That is not what I was speaking to.  Higher quality optics will yield finer levels of focus/sharpness, but will not change the depth of field. 

I definitely get that the scope under discussion is cheap, as in low quality.  And I definitely get that there never will be a device/scope that satisfies all our desires.  Those are not the question, so please do not try to pass it of as such.

Rick 

[Ken S]

Here is a link to a much earlier discussion of digital microscopes:

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2648.0

Back then, I purchased a Celestron digital like Grepper recommended in this topic. The cost was around $100US, which would be at the top of your budgeted range of 100 pounds. I chose that model because it seemed like a quality product which would do what I wanted at a reasonable price. It works very well with a laptop and makes digital photos. I have not used it much, but would buy it again if I needed another one.

One caveat I would add, I purchased it several years ago. I would use it as a starting reference and compare it with present models.

I know little about microscopes; however, as a dedicated amateur photographer since 1963, I have been fortunate enough to have had some excellent training over the years. This included some in depth training about depth of field at the Leica School. There are a lot of misconceptions about depth of field. The two determining factors in depth of field are the Ratio of Reproduction and the aperture. Ratio of Reproduction is the difference in image size between what is being photographed and the size of that image on the film or screen. A 25mm long knife edge photographed on 25mm of film or screen would have a Ratio of Reproduction of 1:1, commonly called "life size". A 250mm knife edge photographed on the same 25mm film would have a R of R of 1:10. Assuming the same aperture is used, the depth of field for the same R of R is the same, regardless of the focal length or optical quality of the lens. A high quality lens will have better resolution (sharpness); however the depth of field will be equal.

My favorite working tools are chisels. A chisel bevel is so much easier to see than a knife bevel. If you place the chisel with the bevel parallel to the film (or digital sensor) plane, it is easy to get the entire bevel in sharp focus.

The Celestron holds the microscope in place. You can use the microscope for before and after images or to check progress during sharpening.

Good lighting is essential.

Our forum expert was Grepper. Unfortunately, he has moved on to other interests; however a member search of his posts will bring up a lot of good information. Start with his earlier posts, 2015 and earlier. Another excellent source is bessex.com, the bess exchange.

I hope this helps.

Ken

[ABall]

Fantastic info Ken, I will check that thread out too. I had a quick look at those scopes on Amaozon and it appears you get what you pay for even over £100.

[ABall]

Having read the threads and looked at what Grepper was using there is now a newer model which is £50 off atm, under £100 then and the specs look good, could be a good choice... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07MQB1HP9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_1BG6Fb6Q1ZT12?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

[RickKrung]

Check and understand the specs and capabilities carefully and make sure they suit your needs.

Scrolling down to the model comparison table, last line, each one shows 10x OR 1/2/300X which suggests to me they are not "zoom-able", which would severely limit their usefulness, to me at least.  Hopefully, it isn't what is seems. 

Rick

[ABall]

Ah thanks Rick, I may pop the question on amazon then, they deffo need to be zoomable!

[Ken S]

I am old enough to regard 100 dollars or 100 pounds as a lot of money. As someone with a minuscule knowledge of microscopes, I would suggest careful study.

Ken

[ABall]

I am old enough to regard 100 dollars or 100 pounds as a lot of money. As someone with a minuscule knowledge of microscopes, I would suggest careful study.

Ken

Me too, I'm also running out of time as the wife wants to start saving for a house, soon I will have to stop buying hobby shit.....

Reality check,  I'm 54 and she is 37 so she probably wants to save some money for when I pop my clogs, no way we can get a house at this stage in life, but at least I've purchased some nice tools that she can hopefully sell on when I'm gone.... watch this space....

[ABall]

Yes, looking at the edge seems like an obvious objective.  But "how" you look at it matters.  Do you want to look at it real time, as you sharpen, to evaluate progress and examine the burr?  Or do you want to take photos of it during or after, either just as information, to share online or whatever. 

Actively examining the edge during the process of sharpening, I have found the Kingmas 60X hand microscope to be the best. I've tried a variety of other mangifucations, the 40X that came with the Vetako goniometer, but it does not appear to be included in their current offerings. 

I looked into USB microscopes back when I wanted to get really good high magnification photos of the edge and burr, but was frustrated by their profound lack of clarity.  There has been some discussion of microscopes for this purpose on the BESS Exchange, which was the beginning basis of my search. 

I had previously tried a dissecting microscope, but also found it lacking.  I now just about exclusively rely on the Kingmas 60X.  At around $7 US, it is hard to beat. 

Rick

The Kingmass arrived today to my surprise, go Amazon US. You were right its amazing for the money, mine doesnt say Kingmass on the pouch and the plastic ring that holds the barrel needs gluing in place but its so easy to focus and I can see the burr but more importantly I can move it along the blade with no loss of focus.

Thanks.

[RickKrung]

...snip...
The Kingmass arrived today to my surprise, go Amazon US. You were right its amazing for the money, mine doesnt say Kingmass on the pouch and the plastic ring that holds the barrel needs gluing in place but its so easy to focus and I can see the burr but more importantly I can move it along the blade with no loss of focus.

Thanks.

Great.  Sorry you had to do the gluing.  Hopefully that fixes it.  No matter what name is on it, I've seen them listed under all sorts of brands.  Best hand scope I've found.  I have four at various locations around my shop, metal machining and bamboo fly rod making plus two in my sharpening tools. I've given a few away and even put one in the silent auction at a bamboo fly rod makers gathering.  Retail price was listed ($7) but it went for about five times that because the guys had seen what they could see on their rods with it. 

The late Mark Reich, a BESS Exchange member, is the one I learned of it from in Post #4 of this excellent thread on microscopes for knife edge examination, started by Vadim of Knife Grinders. 

Rick

[ABall]

...snip...
The Kingmass arrived today to my surprise, go Amazon US. You were right its amazing for the money, mine doesnt say Kingmass on the pouch and the plastic ring that holds the barrel needs gluing in place but its so easy to focus and I can see the burr but more importantly I can move it along the blade with no loss of focus.

Thanks.

Great.  Sorry you had to do the gluing.  Hopefully that fixes it.  No matter what name is on it, I've seen them listed under all sorts of brands.  Best hand scope I've found.  I have four at various locations around my shop, metal machining and bamboo fly rod making plus two in my sharpening tools. I've given a few away and even put one in the silent auction at a bamboo fly rod makers gathering.  Retail price was listed ($7) but it went for about five times that because the guys had seen what they could see on their rods with it. 

The late Mark Reich, a BESS Exchange member, is the one I learned of it from in Post #4 of this excellent thread on microscopes for knife edge examination, started by Vadim of Knife Grinders. 

Rick

Thanks Rick, reading those threads now, Mark was spot on, and who would of thought you could get this so cheap, the Carson is now classed as garbage by comparison. 

ATB.
Alan.

[Ken S]

Rick,

Thanks for posting the link to that bessex topic. It has most of the bessex "murderer's row" heavy hitters. Any serious knife sharpener should be part of the BESS exchange (bessex.com)

Sadly, Mark Reich passed away, a great loss to the knifemaking and sharpening communities. Mark was generous in sharing his extensive expertise. I have a platen that he made me for my Kalamazoo belt grinder. I treasure it as a gift from a friend. His machining was impeccable. I miss him.

Ken

[Ken S]

Alan,

As a lifelong photographer, over the years I have purchased and used a formidable arsenal of Nikon close up/copy gear. For knife edge work, a digital microscope is hands down more practical.

Ken

[ABall]

Alan,

As a lifelong photographer, over the years I have purchased and used a formidable arsenal of Nikon close up/copy gear. For knife edge work, a digital microscope is hands down more practical.

Ken

But which one? lol. I get the feeling its probably twice the cost of a BESS? In which case it will move down my priority list now I have the Kingmass.

[RickKrung]

Rick,

Thanks for posting the link to that bessex topic. It has most of the bessex "murderer's row" heavy hitters. Any serious knife sharpener should be part of the BESS exchange (bessex.com)

Sadly, Mark Reich passed away, a great loss to the knifemaking and sharpening communities. Mark was generous in sharing his extensive expertise. I have a platen that he made me for my Kalamazoo belt grinder. I treasure it as a gift from a friend. His machining was impeccable. I miss him.

Ken

Indeed, I agree on all your points.  Mark was a great guy and as you say, very generous.  We came from very different backgrounds but found some strong commonalities and talked quite a bit off-line.  I miss him also. 

Rick