What to do with my new found T4?

[John S]

Moderator, if this post is best in the knife sharpening group please move it there. I was not able to delete OR move it.  Thank you.

Hello, 

I have been learning from this forum for quite a while and have yet to post, until now.

I am looking for advice on what my next move should be.  I am a very new kitchen knife sharpener. Still learning and working on my own and neighbor's knives for free. I am having moderate success and see me maybe having a sideline business after I retire in a few years. I am watching a zillion YouTube videos.

I bought a demo T8 with all its supplied accessories and the HTK-706 kit to do the knives. The T8 and HTK are in new condition. This is what I have been practicing with.

I found a used T4 with a badly chipped grindstone, which needs replacing. Most of the original T4 kit was included too. I paid $75 for it. Did I overpay?

My questions involve the T4. I do not feel I should buy another original SG-200 wheel since my T8's SG-250 is in pristine condition.
1.   Should I just put away the T4 for a while?
2.   Should I purchase a Japanese stone for it?
3.   If I buy a SJ-200 wheel won't the bevel be different no matter how precise an angle setting method I employ because of the wheel radius difference?
4.   Should I get another type of grinding wheel for it?

Thank you for your consideration.

John

[Jan]

John, it is definitively good to have two Tormek machines! In your situation I would use the T8 for sharpening and the T4 for honing. Standard honing is done on the leather wheel however some people use the SJ wheel for almost the same purpose. Strictly speaking SJ wheel is still grinding wheel.

Modern setup calculators, e.g. TormekCalc2, overcome the difference in wheel radiuses without any difficulties.

I recommend the Kenjig concept to your attention. Suitable Kenjig can solve most of your setup problems with kitchen knives sharpening for quite a long time. 

Jan

[Ken S]

Welcome to the active forum, John.

At $75, you certainly did not overpay for your T4. In fact, if I had seen it before you, I would have had the fastest wallet draw in Columbus! (Actually, if I had known you wanted to purchase it, I would have deferred to you; I already have a T4.)

I agree with Jan's thoughts. The T4 and T8 are both different and remarkably similar. I would not recommend replacing the cracked SG-200 at this time. The T4 can utilize other options. Some future possibilities:

Norton makes useful 3X 46 and 80 grit grinding wheels. The largest size is 8 inches. These can work with the T8, however, they are same diameter for the T4. They are the fastest cutting wheels I have found for a Tormek. I make reducing bushings to fit the 12 mm Tormek shaft out of plastic water pipe. If you want to go this route sometime in the future, let me know. I can help you to get set up.

The T4 frame will hold a 200mm (8") wheel with a water trough OR a 250mm (10") wheel with no water trough. I presently have a ten inch rock hard felt deburring wheel on order. I plan to use my T4 as a dedicated deburrer. Incidentally, the EZYlock end of the shafts are the same lengths on both the T4 and T8. The recess depths on the outside of the wheels are different to compensate for the difference in wheel widths.

If you eventually set up a retirement sharpening business, the T4 makes an ideal portable sharpening machine. It weighs half the poundage of a T8, and is more compact. It is a perfect fit for either of the two diamond wheels and the rubber honing wheel for the T2. This lets you operate without water or honing compound if you are mobile.

Be sure to register your Tormeks on the website. In addition to preserving your warranty, registration lets you download the latest edition of the online handbook.

My mentor, Steve Bottorff, used an old SuperGrind for many years at farmers markets. He also volunteered to help sharpen knives at a Boy Scout Jamboree. He had to hike in carrying his Tormek. He was very grateful to have his T4 with him. Incidentally, you should check out Steve's website, sharpeningmadeeasy.com. The DVD Steve made, Sharpening School, is head and shoulders the best training resource for setting up a sharpening business. Steve made it as he was retiring from teaching sharpening. It is an excellent alternative.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[RickKrung]

Ken makes some really good suggestions for use of your T4, regarding use of a Norton 3X grinding wheel and for using a rock hard felt wheel for honing. 

I use both on my T8 and they are part of my necessary and full complement of sharpening.  I have all the Tormek grinding wheels, SG, SB, SJ and the three diamond wheels.  Most of the time, when I need fast metal removal, I use a Norton 8" dia. 64 grit grind stone on the T8 in the water trough.  Or, I use my Viel 1x42 belt grinder.  My finishing routine involves the SJ stone for initial deburring, followed by the 10" rock hard felt wheel with 1µ diamond paste.  I no longer use the Tormek leather honing wheel. 

Having a T4 as a second machine would be great, if set up for the above operations. 

Rick

[RichColvin]

John,

I too live in the Columbus, Ohio area.  If you are looking to sell your T-4, I will be happy to buy it from you.

But do consider keeping it to extend the life of your T-8 stones.  There is more information at this link:  http://sharpeninghandbook.colvintools.com/Grindstones-StoneLife.html

I sent CB my worn down stones that no longer work on the T-2000.  My T-2000 uses the same 250mm sized grindstones as the T-8, but these were worn down to 180mm.  He uses them on his T-4.  He should get another 50-60% of use from those stones.

Kind regards,
Rich

[cbwx34]

...

I sent CB my worn down stones that no longer work on the T-2000.  My T-2000 uses the same 250mm sized grindstones as the T-8, but these were worn down to 180mm.  He uses them on his T-4.
...

And it works well!

...
1.   Should I just put away the T4 for a while?
2.   Should I purchase a Japanese stone for it?
3.   If I buy a SJ-200 wheel won't the bevel be different no matter how precise an angle setting method I employ because of the wheel radius difference?
4.   Should I get another type of grinding wheel for it?

Thank you for your consideration.

John

1.  Yes... stick with one machine, you can get great edges with the "stock" Tormek.  (But keep it for the above mentioned reasons down the road).

2.  Unless you have an identified need... no.  Most kitchen knives won't really benefit from it, and, other ideas (again in earlier posts) are better.

3.  Not really

4.  A "honing specific" wheel, otherwise, I'd save it for use down the road.  My .02... if repairs become an issue, I'd look at a belt sander.  (Maybe a topic for another day).

[John S]

Jan, Ken, Rich, Rick, CB,

Thank you.  Wow, a wealth of knowledge and opinions.  I think I will save the T4 for some kind of final finishing for some future date when I see the need to speed up my production output.  I will continue to practice on the T8 with what I have. I recently bought a larger caliper tool and have downloaded an angle calculator that should satisfy me for a while.  Truth be told I am a tool whore so acquiring tools is a natural occurrence for me. I will be on the prowl for more Tormeks at a great price.

I have also bought a 1x30 variable speed belt sander and a bunch of belts so let's see where these adventures take me.

Now if someone has a worn out SG-250 stone that I can use on my T4, contact me and let's see if we can work something out.

Best, John

[Brad I]

I hereby offer you $75 for your T-4 haha.

Actually, I'm with the others, keep both.  If you're going to do pro sharpening, having the T-4 can be a life saver if you get out to a client's house and the T-8 stone breaks in transit. 

[John_B]

I hereby offer you $75 for your T-4 haha.

Actually, I'm with the others, keep both.  If you're going to do pro sharpening, having the T-4 can be a life saver if you get out to a client's house and the T-8 stone breaks in transit.

I never move mine with the stone on it. It is too heavy, hard on bearing surfaces and easier to break the stone.

[John S]

You had better believe if I find another deal on any model Tormek I will outdraw all of you knifeslingers in a wallet fight. I do regularly see older models priced for display rather than a sale. By that I mean after the recommended upgrades to those older models it would be cheaper to pay full retail and get a new T8. Actually if this becomes a profitable adventure I will get one or two more T8s to up production. But I first need to become accurate, speedy later.

I have now exhausted the supply of dull knives from my home and immediate neighbors. Guess I have to look farther afield. Thinking of letting coworkers know I will sharpen their knives for free (for the time being).

I like how wet sharpening is a dust free process.

I am trying to emulate Knife Grinders' techniques but have a distance to go.

I have made two KENJIGs. One at 15 degrees and one at 20 degrees.  Those alone have improved efficiency. Ken, they are brilliantly simple tools. Also using the on-line calculator for situations when the KENJIG doesn't fit.

Accurate stropping is a problem with the knife holder's knob hitting the USB when placed in the front mounting holes. I remove the stone and have to freehand strop. Am I missing something?

John S

[RickKrung]

...snip...
Accurate stropping is a problem with the knife holder's knob hitting the USB when placed in the front mounting holes. I remove the stone and have to freehand strop. Am I missing something?

John S

It has been so long since I used the USB in the front mounting holes "in the stock fashion" that I don't recall having that problem.  I do remove the grindstone when I deburr using the leather honing wheel, which is very infrequent these days.  Replacing the knob for a 6mm set screw would eliminate the interference.  However...

I think you would benefit from buying or making a "Frontal Vertical Base" (FVB).  If you are following Knife Grinders (KG), you must already know of this device.  Wootz invented it and share the concept a couple/three years ago.  Information has been posted here by several who have made their own.  If you buy one from KG or make one to their exact dimensions, you can use their software app for angle setting.  But there are several other apps or spreadsheets that can be used, some of which can be customized to homemade FVBs.  Use of setting angles by the "distance to the stone" from the USB is a universal solution, which several of the generic angle setting apps support. 

A most handy and fast tool for setting the distance to the stone from the USB is the "Ultimate Angle Tool".  No software apps needed.  Measures wheel diamters, sets projections and sets distance to the stone from the USB.  I have one but don't use it as I am so comfortable with my methods of measuring stone diameters and setting projections that I've not been motivated to change.  Also, for setting the distance to the stone, I like the method of stretching a light rubber band between the USB and the shaft (hooked on the threads, thus the use of a "light" rubber band) as an alignment guide for the tool I use for setting the distance (a woodworker's marking gauge). 

Rick

[cbwx34]

...
A most handy and fast tool for setting the distance to the stone from the USB is the "Ultimate Angle Tool".  No software apps needed.  Measures wheel diamters, sets projections and sets distance to the stone from the USB.
...

It does require a calculator (or some method) to calculate the height of the USB.  (The tool just makes it easy to measure).

[RickKrung]

...
A most handy and fast tool for setting the distance to the stone from the USB is the "Ultimate Angle Tool".  No software apps needed.  Measures wheel diamters, sets projections and sets distance to the stone from the USB.
...

It does require a calculator (or some method) to calculate the height of the USB.  (The tool just makes it easy to measure).

Yes, thanks CB, for that clarification/correction.  I guess by not using it, I was forgetting that important point. 

Rick

[John S]

OK, now I am diving into the deeper end of the pool.  I just ordered a FVB for my T8.