Lots of woodcarver questions: T8, SVS-38, SVD-186, diamonds...

[Jof]

Hi all. I'm new here and have lot of questions I hope you can help me with

I'm a wood carver and use gouges along with occasional planes. I currently have a Work Sharp 3000 with 120 to 3000 grit papers and with it I can do everything I want from rapidly shaping a new or blunt gouge or plane through to final polish. However, there's a few major things I don't like about it so I'm looking at a Tormek T8. Ultimately I'd like the T8 to replace the WS3000 completely but I have many questions first:

Shaping stage of gouges and planes
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How fast is the T8 at removing a lot of material for commissioning tools? For instance, with the 120grit on my WS3000 I can put an almost-final form to a factory or chipped gouge in just a few mins before 10mins or so of sharpening/polishing.

SVS-38
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Looking at the videos, it seems like this jig can't do the full 180 degrees left to right necessary to fully shape a U-gouge. So how are U gouges shaped on a Tormek?

SVD-186
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Is it possible to get non-fingernail profiles from this? For example, the cutting surface of a gouge is approximately conical but all the videos show long, swooping shapes like you'd want for turning and not carving.

Diamond wheels
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1) Will the diamond wheels take annealed (unhardened) O1 steel without gumming up? Or do they only work with harder steels?

2) How fast are they are removing material versus the stock stone wheel?

3) How robust are they? My experiences with DMT stones is they wear very fast.

Many thanks!

Jof

[RichColvin]

Jof,

I haven't used the WorkSharp system, so I cannot compare the two.  But, as it regards the Tormek, I can answer many of your questions. 

As it regards the grindstones, I've compiled a lot of information at https://sharpeninghandbook.info/Grindstones.html

I compared the diamond stones to the traditional grindstones in this posting https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3805.0

For my carving tools, I use the standard SG-250 grindstone and the SJ-250 Japanese grindstone.  They work well for me, but I am an amateur.

As to the robustness of the diamond wheels, we have not had anyone post on this forum that they have worn them out.  I can say that Tormek makes high quality products.

Regarding the use of the various jigs, I posted information on the Sharpening Handbook, but it is organized by tool to be sharpened, and not by jig.  The link is https://sharpeninghandbook.info/

The SVS-38's range of motion is quite big, and it can be used where it spans the USB or up against it.  The second option should not allow the retaining screw to stop the motion, giving you 360° of rotation. 

The SVD-186 will do as you ask. 

Please let us know what you decide to do.

Kind regards,
Rich

[Jof]

Thank you, Rich, for that reply and the amazing and generous information on your site!

I notice there's a bit of discussion on that thread between the SB and SG grindstone and I'm still a bit confused. If I read it correctly there's some people saying they've not had a positive experience from the SB (glazing) and additionally you mention below you personally use the SG. Is the SB more of a specialist stone that I shouldn't consider for my day-to-day activities in sharpening gouges?

It seems like the SJ creates an amazing surface - similar to my Work Sharp with the finer papers. Do you find you prefer the SJ to stropping or still do a fairly heavy strop with the leather wheel? I've experimented a fair amount on the WS with heavy strops following 600-1000 grit versus light strops following 3000 grit and I find the latter gives me the best edge if I have the patience!

Finally, what a "USB" as in "it spans the USB"?

[RichColvin]

Jon,

My apologies :  I should have spelled out USB = Universal Support Bar (https://www.tormek.com/usa/en/spare-parts/other-spare-parts-and-upgrades/us-105-universal-support/ ).  That is the bar on which all the jigs ride.

The original Tormeks shipped with natural grindstones.  For some reason, probably a well-reasoned and good one, they switched to a man-made grindstone.  That is the SG grindstone.  It is really good for most tool steel, but not as good for high speed steel.  Thus the SB grindstone was introduced.

I have found the SB grindstone works better for harder steels, but that the standard SP-650 stone grader (https://www.tormek.com/usa/en/accessories/other-accessories/sp-650-stone-grader/ ), used to deglaze or change the grit on the SG grindstone from 220ish to 1000ish, doesn't work too well on the SB Grindstone.  I have since purchased a diamond plate for that purpose (DMT D8X 8-Inch Dia-Sharp Continuous Diamond Extra-Coarse).

Those who sharpen many knives have reported that the SB grindstone gives a longer life than the SG.  I can't speak to that directly, but I did purchase my Tormek T-2000 in 2002, and I've only replaced the SB & SG grindstones in the last 2 years.  So, I got 15+ years life from them.

But, whilst the SB grindstone is amazing for harder steels, I have found that the SG grindstone is better for higher carbon steels like those used in carving.  That is the reason for my recommendation.


I find the Japanese grindstone to be excellent when I need a very exacting sharp.  For example, the fly cutters I use on my rose engine lathe (http://sharpeninghandbook.info/WW-RoseEngineFlyCutter-Rod.html ) need to have very polished and exacting surfaces to end up with the finished product surface desired.  The SJ grindstone does this superbly.

The SJ grindstone also provides a more even surface on the tool.  It truly looks like a mirror.  In contrast, the honing wheel can give a nice hone, but one can still see a bit of waviness to the surface.  It is not extreme, but would not fit the needs for my fly cutters.

When I hone my woodturning tools (rarely) or my knives, I use diamond paste or jeweler's rouge on a paper wheel in a high speed grinder.  There is a lot of information about this approach to honing on Knife Grinders' site (http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures.htm ).  Dr. Vadim Kraichuk is the owner (Wootz on this forum), and has really done great work on finding the best methods for sharpening knives.  His book (https://www.amazon.com/Knife-Deburring-Science-behind-lasting-ebook/dp/B07NQ48WG7/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=kraichuk&qid=1583322934&sr=8-1 ) is worth the read.


A quick comparison of the grindstones and which one is recommended for types of steels and purposes (e.g., shaping vs. sharpening vs. honing) is at http://sharpeninghandbook.info/Grindstones-QuickSelect.html

As a final note, there is an icon on the Sharpening Handbook for each section of tools.  This icon is a link to where one can see the process and grinding media I recommend for that type of tool.  An example of that icon is below:

For carving tools, that takes you to http://sharpeninghandbook.info/Info-WoodCarvingTools.html

Hope that helps.

Kind regards,
Rich

[Jof]

Thank you again. Your words above and the links and videos have really helped me understand the available tools and where my needs fit in.

So in the end, I suspect the default wheels (leather and SG-250) are probably mostly sufficient for my needs. I can definitely see circumstances where the SJ could help - and I'll keep that option open - but for now I'll see how far the stock ones go. When I originally opened this thread I was expecting to discover that getting the diamond stones were borderline essential (giving the improvements) but it's good to know I don't have to budget for that

[Ken S]

Good posts.

Don't overlook the possibilities of judicious use of the stone grader and flexibility of grinding touch. Finishing with a light touch can make a real difference in scratch sizes. So can skillful use of the leather honing wheel and PA-70.

Ken

[RichColvin]

Thank you again. Your words above and the links and videos have really helped me understand the available tools and where my needs fit in.

So in the end, I suspect the default wheels (leather and SG-250) are probably mostly sufficient for my needs. I can definitely see circumstances where the SJ could help - and I'll keep that option open - but for now I'll see how far the stock ones go. When I originally opened this thread I was expecting to discover that getting the diamond stones were borderline essential (giving the improvements) but it's good to know I don't have to budget for that

Jof,

I think that you are making the best choice.  If you find that you later want to add the SJ grindstone to your process, you can do so without having to change any of the jigs that you are using.  It is an additive process, not a replacement one.  In fact, I have only replaced a few jigs over the years, and that is because the new ones are so far superior to the one it replaced.  The SVD-186 is one example. It greatly overshadows the SVD-185.

Good luck with the new Tormek.  I know that you will like it as so many others do.  (That is why there are so few on the used market.)

And do reach out to the forum if you have questions or difficulties.

Kind regards,
Rich

[Jof]

Got my T8 today as well as a boat load of jigs.

My thoughts? It's really really good. Everything I hoped for. Such a joy to use and the results are precise, repeatable and very sharp. The stock stone is actually much faster at removing material than I expected so right now I think that's what I'll use.

Naturally I went around the house sharpening everything I could find.... which explains why I now have big hairless patches on my arm, much to the surprise of my girlfriend