Why Japanese Water Stone

[budbon]

Why would I spend 400$ + on a Japanese water stone (4000 grit) when the PA-70 honing compound can give a mirror (6000-8000 grit) finish? I realize the Water Stone may be faster overall. Am I missing something?

[jeffs55]

You aren't missing anything. I have the Japanese stone though not of Tormek manufacture. They do little more than polish an edge like the honing wheel. They will polish an edge and may produce a sharper edge but not one that is notably sharper than the honing wheel after a good sharpening using a finely graded SG 250. I do not have access to BESS equipment so I have never done a test on this.

[RichColvin]

I have the SJ grindstone and use it when sharpening the tools where it excels:

• wood carving tools, and
• bench tools for woodworking (e.g., chisels & marking knives).

I find it more accurate and also faster than using the honing wheel. This is especially true when touching up the secondary/micro bevel.

But, that's just one man's opinion.

Rich

[Ken S]

Budbon, you ask a good question. When you and I joined this forum, 2004 for you and 2009 for me, the SG-250 was the Tormek grinding wheel, the only Tormek grinding wheel. Combined with PA-70 and the leather honing wheel, graded coarse and fine, it served all purposes.

In 2010, Tormek introduced the SB-250 and SJ-250 special purpose wheels. The SB is designed for newer, harder steel alloys. The SJ 4000 grit wheel is designed as a polishing stone. It is not designed to remove metal like a sharpening stone. It should not be used to try to eliminate the step of using the SG graded fine.

For almost forty years, the Tormek produced very sharp edges using only the SG. In my opinion, not everyone needs the SJ 4000 grit wheel. It is a specialized wheel designed to put the highest polish on an edge. In my opinion, this high degree of polish is only necessary for the most exacting work. Yes, it is expensive. It is also an extra sharpening step. For the demanding sharpener, it does produce extraordinarily polished edges.

I have noticed that many beginners want to purchase an SJ. I do not recommend purchasing it until one has mastered the SG and leather honing wheel.

Ken

[budbon]

Thanks, all. It confirms my suspicions. As I  just do knives, chisels and scissors around home and for a few friends I  guess my old 2000, will continue to meet my needs.

[Ken S]

Budbon,

I have read many posts from new Tormek owners eager to purchase the SJ 4000 grit grinding wheel. My concern with this has nothing to do with the SJ itself. My concern is that having an SJ can short circuit the essential learning process of mastering the SG and the leather honing wheel. The quality of the polish with the SJ is largely dependent upon the quality of the preparatory work. The fewer and smaller the scratches before using the SJ, the fewer and smaller the scratches will be afterward.

Varying the grinding pressure is a key factor with traditional (non diamond) grinding wheels. Try making the last passes with each stage of sharpening using only very light grinding pressure. Not having an SJ initially can force you to master more subtle use of your SG.

You may eventually reach the point where you want the SJ or decide that you don't need it. In either case, mastering your SG and leather honing wheel will serve you well.

Ken

[RichColvin]

I too have a Tormek SuperGrind 2000.  Bought it in 2002.  I used the SG grindstone as often as I can as I find it really effective and easy to use.  I use the SB grindstone for HSS turning tools as it works better.  Same machine for both. 

I tried the diamond stones and found they are quite good.   I just didn't want to fuss with the water each time, and the up-front cost is pretty high for what I do.  Like you, I want to use it when needed.   I'm not running a sharpening business.

I did eventually wear down my first SG and SB grindstones to 180mm.  And I'm on my second set.  Not bad for 17 years of use! 

The other good news also is that old grindstones are in use on a friend's smaller Tormek T4.  They will probably be used by him for another 10-15 years.   That says a lot about the ethics of Tormek that they make a grindstone that is designed to be worn away, but make it to last 30+ years!

A fellow Woodturner at my club called this the "Cadillac" system.   I disagree as, when compared to getting a good 8" grinder ($130), 2 CBN grinding wheels ($200), & 2 quality platforms ($120), you are not that far off the cost of a Tormek T8.

So, the SG grindstone is a good way to go.

Kind regards,
Rich

[Ken S]

Good thoughts, Rich.

Ken

[RichColvin]

Budbon,

I had to sharpen some drill bits for a Chinese ball that I'm making.  It is important that the drill bits be sharp for this operation.  The SJ grindstone is awesome for adding that extra bit to the surface of the drill bit's primary facets.

So, I have to add this to the reason I like the SJ grindstone.

Kind regards,
Rich

[RickKrung]

Rich,

Thanks for posting about using the SJ to put that extra bit on drill bits. I've thought for a while that it would be awesome for that, getting that extra bit of polish to the primary facets. 

Rick