New T-4 and new user

[Roger M.]

Glad to join the forum!
I've just picked up a T-4 (with a bunch of accessories), and look forward to enjoying its excellent sharpening abilities.
I've also picked up Wootz's software and FVB, along with a a laser goniometer and Mike's BESS sharpness measuring system.

I've also begun construction of the Ionut/Herman small knife jig, and look forward to trying that out when it's finished.

I look forward to dealing with hard facts and known entities from here on in when sharpening!

[John_B]

Welcome to the Tormek Community. This is an excellent resource for any sharpening question related to Tormek.

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Roger. You have been doing some homework! you have ordered the best tools for serious study and sharpening.
Keep us posted!
Ken

[Roger M.]

Thanks John and Ken!
I'm actually waiting for Wootz's book to arrive before I get serious about committing to a final setup for my shop, and figuring out a relatively fixed process for proceeding with sharpening (only knives for now).

I'm also desperately waiting for my Viel bench sander to arrive, as my first knife to experiment on "bringing back from the dead" is an ancient Wustof with a broken tip, a protruding bolster, and more than a few chips and cracks in the blade.

This forum has been incredibly instrumental and helpful so far in steering me in the right direction as I upgrade from my old (but trusty) DMT kit to the Tormek.

[RichColvin]

Roger,

You'll be glad you made the move to a Tormek.  I've had mine for 16 years now.  Replaced a few parts (shaft & drive wheel), and upgraded others.  But it is still going quite strongly.

Good luck and do let us know if you have any questions.  This community is quite helpful.

Kind regards,
Rich

[Ken S]

Roger,

I believe you will find "a final set up" a moving target. Incidentally, I highly recommend Steve Bottorff's DVD "Sharpening School". (sharpeningmadeeasy.com) After many years of running a busy sharpening business and teaching, Steve retired and this DVD professionally produced. Steve has become a valued friend and trusted mentor. (He is also a forum member.) I think both Steve's DVD (and book) and Wootz' book and applet are essential for knife sharpeners.

While you are waiting for Wootz' book to arrive, I suggest you start with the traditional Tormek technique. (You can also download the abridged free version and/or the ebook version of Wootz' book in the interim.) Your time will,not be wasted.

Ken

[schipperke]

I've read some question the T-4 RPM is too fast at 120.  Can, or has anyone plugged the machine in to a motor speed control unit?  It reads the motor draws less than 2 amps and there are a few 15, and 20 amp controls available.  I built my own years ago for a router table, worked well.

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, shipperke.

You ask good questions. Much writing about the Tormek suffers from two logical flaws. The first problem is trying to apply high speed dry grinding thinking to the low speed wet grinding Tormek. The second logical flaw is confusing something which may be possible with that same thing being practical.

In the water bath Tormek environment, using nylon bushings instead of roller bearings is practical. There is no rust problem with nylon. The 100 or 120 RPM speeds do not present the heat problems a high speed motor produces. (I include four pole half speed motors with high speed.)

I asked a friend who is a knife sharpening and Tormek expert how often hw replaces his nylon bushings. (He uses eight Tormek grinding wheels he has worn out as weights to secure his booth at farmers markets! Each wheel lasted most of one season; he was a busy sharpener.) He told me that he replaces his nylon bushings about every three wheels. I suspect most of could go a lifetime with only one or two sets of bushings, especially with the advent of stainless steel shafts in 2006.

Ken

I suspect the real reason for the 120 RPM speed is to keep the water in the trough.

The use of a motor speed control falls into the possible/practical category. I cannot see any benefit to being able to slow down a system designed to work at 120RPM. It is certainly useful to be able to run my 3000 RPM table router at lower speeds for heavy cuts or routing aluminum. I replaced the motor on my belt grinder to be variable speed. The slower speed works very with grinding plastic. With the Tormek, I think Torgny Jansson got it right forty years ago.

Keep thinking. Ideas are usually a mixture of not so good and real keepers.We would not want to lose the keepers.

Ken

[schipperke]

Consider that 90 (T-8) to 120 (T-4) RPM is a 33.3% increase, but we must consider the wheel diameters.  Actually the surface speed of the T-4 Wheel isn't much greater than the T-8 when you do the math , it's a 6.6% increase. The actual drop in RPM needed on the T-4 to replicate the cutting speed of a T-8 is only ~7 RPM.  My guess is that is not anything significant in difference.  Considering many use computer software for edge angles vs an eyeball, is one reason I bring surface speed of the stone up.  For the very pedantic sharpeners!  Considering the electric grid in USA, you'd probably get over a 7 RPM difference from home to home. 

[Ken S]

Good point. Surface Feet per Minute (or its metric equivalent is the measure of how many abrasive grits pass by the blade. It is determined by multiplying the circumference (diameter times pi) by the Revolutions Per Minute. The higher RPMs of the T4 and the larger diameter of the T8 essentially eliminate any difference between the two. Any difference between the two SFM readings is insignificant.

The T4 motor is rated at 120 watts. The T8 motor is rated at 200 watts. With the SG wheel, you can push harder with the T8 motor. Using a light touch with a diamond or CBN wheel, I question how much extra power really is transferred to the work.

Ken

[Roger M.]

I know I'm not alone in putting everything together below, but here's where I am with setting up my sharpening workbench:

1)  I'm using the Tormek T-4.
2)  I'm using Wootz's Front Vertical Base for honing (and overly large knives and cleavers)
3)  I'm using Wootz's basic sharpening concepts from his book (which has been hugely influential on my choices of equipment and procedure).
4)  I'm using a laser goniometer to establish edge angles prior to sharpening, and then again to confirm edge angles when completed.
5)  I'm using the BESS sharpness system with a consistent weight to establish tension on the test media (a la SHARPCO)
6)  I'm using Wootz's software for the basic Tormek, as well as his separate software for the FVB.


I can get to 120-130 BESS easily with the package above.
What I have to purchase and set up now is a 1/2 speed buffer with paper wheels, diamond paste, and the Tormek guide system as detailed by Wootz on his website and in his book. I'll then have to get Wootz to program a third piece of his software for the specific dimensions of the Buffer set-up (a service he has on his website for a small fee). I expect that this addition will get me consistently below 60-100 BESS, depending on the steel.

The major revelation for me in using the above system is the precise consistency and repeatability, and being able to know up-front how any given sharpening project will turn out. Things like knowing exactly what the finished edge angle will be, as well as having a very close approximation of the BESS sharpness level to expect are pretty new concepts to me ... as I depended on a much less accurate DMT guided system prior to the Tormek.

Like any project, half the fun is in the planning and execution (and purchasing!) ... something I'm still enjoying immensely.
This forum has proven invaluable in providing the extensive knowledge one requires to set up a well thought out sharpening bench.
Thanks to all.

[John_B]

Roger, I think you can do better with just the standard Tormek setup you have along with the FVB. take a look at this thread where Al was able to achieve a 65 BESS score.

https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3936.0

[Roger M.]

Very enlightening John, thanks very much for the link to that thread!
After reading that thread, it seems prudent to hold off purchasing the buffer until I can get below 100 BESS consistently with just the basic Tormek set-up.

I also see in that thread that Wootz references using Tormek leather wheels with diamond paste, which also seems a potential avenue to explore prior to expanding the equipment inventory with a buffer