Best wheel for professional sharpener?

[SteveHarbour]

Hello All.  I have a Tormek T8 which started me in the sharpening business 18 months ago. I'm becoming reasonably successful.   My SG stone is wearing to the point where I need to think about replacing it soon.  Here's the question: should I buy Tormek's diamond wheel?  If so, what is the best all around grit?  I'm assuming DF (fine). 

For background, I am a mobile sharpener.  As I occasionally work farmers markets and other events, speed is important.  More than half of my work is higher end kitchen knives with decent quality steels. Quality of the final edge is important to me.  I like the fact that the diamond stone doesn't need to be trued or graded, and the diameter remains constant.   The question I have is will the diamond wheel outlast the SG wheel?  In other words, is it good value for a professional sharpener?   Thank you in advance. 

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Steve.

Tormek describes the diamond wheels as having "exceptional durability". In my opinion, these words are well chosen. They sound impressive, but do not imply an exact useful life and certainly do not imply "forever". I think that is honest marketing.

A diamond wheel costs approximately twice what an Original grinding wheel costs. Therefore, it starts to become cost effective when it lasts twice as long as the Original grinding wheel. I would be very surprised if a diamond wheel, used properly with the Anti Corrosion Compound and very light grinding pressure, did not last much longer than the break even point. Tormek has not shared its testing data. I understand why. Useful life depends on operator finesse, something Tormek cannot control. In your case, by the time you might actually wear out a diamond wheel, this would be a very old topic.

In comparing cost, we must include other factors. You correctly note the efficiency gained in not having to retrue the wheel or compensate for changes in diameter. I have also found that the diamond wheels cut faster. Diamond wheels are rated hard enough to cut carbide. My coarse diamond wheel (360 grit) easily out performs my 220 grit SG and SB wheels in reshaping a high speed steel turning skew chisel.

The DF-250 600 grit fine wheel is the standard issue grinding wheel with the T2 machine specialized for restaurant knives. I believe that Tormek originally intended it as the only wheel for the T2, but added the coarse 360 grit wheel at the request of a large customer. I agree with your comment that the 600 grit DF-250 is your most practical choice. Incidentally, I have found that grit size is not the only factor with comparing diamond and Original grinding wheels. Grit hardness and "exceptional durability" matter.

I suggest you purchase your diamond wheel while a little useful life remains in your SG. Once I started using diamond wheels, I rarely use my SG, however, it is nice to have that option.

Do keep us posted.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Hello All.  I have a Tormek T8 which started me in the sharpening business 18 months ago. I'm becoming reasonably successful.   My SG stone is wearing to the point where I need to think about replacing it soon.  Here's the question: should I buy Tormek's diamond wheel?  If so, what is the best all around grit?  I'm assuming DF (fine). 

For background, I am a mobile sharpener.  As I occasionally work farmers markets and other events, speed is important.  More than half of my work is higher end kitchen knives with decent quality steels. Quality of the final edge is important to me.  I like the fact that the diamond stone doesn't need to be trued or graded, and the diameter remains constant.   The question I have is will the diamond wheel outlast the SG wheel?  In other words, is it good value for a professional sharpener?   Thank you in advance.

In my opinion, at this point and time, if you get one, consider yourself a beta tester.  There is no data that I know of, that will answer your question.  One "professional sharpener" got one, and wore it out in 3 weeks.  Could be many reasons why, but it still happened.

I think at this point, the diamond wheel should be considered a supplement to, not a replacement for, the standard wheel... and should be purchased if a special need exists, like sharpening higher end steels... at least until more actual use data is obtained.  Otherwise, consider yourself a pioneer if you do.    My .02.

[RichColvin]

Steve,

I've tested the diamond wheels, and they offer a lot of advantages, but, I'd consider using the traditional grindstones also.  The ability to regrade the traditional grindstone lets a single grindstone do the work of two diamond wheels.

Also, look at what Dan @ Exact Blade has done to extend the life of his grindstones. His YouTube video is : https://youtu.be/lVKp_CQngQI.

Good luck with your business venture.  Please keep us apprised on how it goes.

Kind regards,
Rich

[Ken S]

I must disagree. I have read the post you referenced where the user supposedly wore out his diamond wheel in three weeks of light use. I don't mean to doubt his story, however, his claim is incomplete. I replied requesting more more information. He did not reply. The poster has been inactive since the day he made his post, October 15,2018. I am willing to consider documented criticism of Tormek products, however, I expect more complete information. At this point I am not convinced that the problem is not operator error.

I give more credence to testers like Glenn Lucas and Nick Agar who tested the diamond wheels for a year. They were among the real beta testers. In my own limited use with the diamond wheels, they have performed very well. If the "professional sharpener" had a real issue with his diamond wheel, he should have worked with support to resolve it. To the best of my knowledge, he has not done so.

If this is a real issue, we should have read multiple complaints.

Steve, at this point you, like me, would be among the early users of the diamond wheels. I think calling that being a beta tester or a pioneer is a stretch. I do recommend you get the diamond while your SG is still usable. I believe the SG is and will continue to be the cost effective all around wheel for home and occasional sharpener. I also believe the higher volume professional sharpeners will quickly gravitate toward the diamond wheels. The early users will be among the first to benefit from the new technology.

"Fortune favors the brave."

Ken


I agree that Tormek needs to do a more thorough job of explaining how to use the diamond wheels. They need an in depth video aimed at assisting actual users rather than short marketing videos.

[Ken S]

Steve,

I've tested the diamond wheels, and they offer a lot of advantages, but, I'd consider using the traditional grindstones also.  The ability to regrade the traditional grindstone lets a single grindstone do the work of two diamond wheels.

Also, look at what Dan @ Exact Blade has done to extend the life of his grindstones. His YouTube video is : https://youtu.be/lVKp_CQngQI.

Good luck with your business venture.  Please keep us apprised on how it goes.

Kind regards,
Rich

Rich,

I agree with your point about the Original grindstone serving as two grinding wheels with the stone grader. This is indeed advantageous for a general purpose home sharpener like me. For a professional sharpener specializing in kitchen knives, a single wheel, as used in the T2, would cover much of the waterfront. Jeff Farris recommended sharpening knives using the fine graded wheel only.

If I was having a high end knife sharpened by a professional, I would expect the sharpener to use a proper size grinding wheel. A well worn grinding wheel may certainly be used for home handyman tools, however, I would expect more for professional work.

Ken

[cbwx34]

I must disagree. I have read the post you referenced where the user supposedly wore out his diamond wheel in three weeks of light use. I don't mean to doubt his story, however, his claim is incomplete. I replied requesting more more information. He did not reply. The poster has been inactive since the day he made his post, October 15,2018. I am willing to consider documented criticism of Tormek products, however, I expect more complete information. At this point I am not convinced that the problem is not operator error.

I give more credence to testers like Glenn Lucas and Nick Agar who tested the diamond wheels for a year. They were among the real beta testers. In my own limited use with the diamond wheels, they have performed very well. If the "professional sharpener" had a real issue with his diamond wheel, he should have worked with support to resolve it. To the best of my knowledge, he has not done so.

If this is a real issue, we should have read multiple complaints.

Steve, at this point you, like me, would be among the early users of the diamond wheels. I think calling that being a beta tester or a pioneer is a stretch. I do recommend you get the diamond while your SG is still usable. I believe the SG is and will continue to be the cost effective all around wheel for home and occasional sharpener. I also believe the higher volume professional sharpeners will quickly gravitate toward the diamond wheels. The early users will be among the first to benefit from the new technology.

"Fortune favors the brave."

Ken


I agree that Tormek needs to do a more thorough job of explaining how to use the diamond wheels. They need an in depth video aimed at assisting actual users rather than short marketing videos.

Glenn Lucas and Nick Agar are probably more the equivalent of an "alpha" tester (I'll let you look it up).  But, what do you know about their testing?  Use the same stone for a year?  Wore out a couple before they "figured it out"?  I find no documentation of their "testing"... just a couple of marketing paragraphs.  (Remember "New Coke"?)

You also can't say "we should have read multiple complaints"... because there doesn't seem to be a lot of diamond wheels in the field... and I'm betting even less in a professional setting.

Unless you can show beyond the Tormek "alpha" testers... real world testing that equates to what Steve wants to know... I'll stand by, he is "testing the waters".  I can show 2 (Rick's included in that earlier thread) where there was an issue.

Or just answer this... can you with confidence say... buy the diamond stone, I guarantee it'll last as long as the SG did.  I can't... I have nothing to base it on.

If the proof is out there... I'm all ears... I want to believe... 

[Ken S]

CB,

You make a good point; there is a lack of good written support for the Tormek wheels. The SG has a very long tenure and good coverage in the handbook. I would not consider this extensive proof, however, it is much better coverage than we have with all of the more recent wheels: the blackstone, Japanese stone or the diamond wheels.

Lacking much documentation, I make my decisions based on personal experience, mine or that of others I trust. In my case, I have had years of good sharpening results with the SG. Reshaping results have been much better with the diamond wheels also with the Norton 3X and CBN wheels. With the SB, I must rely on others that I trust. My own results with the SB have been disappointing.

The safe choice is to buy another SG. You know from personal experience that it should last eighteen months. Based on my limited experience with the diamond wheels, I think the diamond wheels may be safe bets for better performance.

Ken