Beginner questions throughout the process

[timpaulgeorge]

Thanks for taking the time to read and help me, folks. I really appreciate. I've watched and read a lot of posts/videos on the forums, but I these questions are either not explained well enough for my mind or haven't been covered yet - often posts lack good pictures to help identify the problem/solution.
These are the steps I did today, hopefully the pictures will attach themselves in order.

1: True the SG-250 stone using TT-50.
Question: are the occasional flecks of diamond normal as opposed to the whole surface of the tip being the same? The stone experienced two 'cuts' as the tip crossed the stone, leaving two visible lines traveling across the stone while truing. (see pic)

2: Replace the water after truing - water turned all milky.
Question: when/whether to replace the water in the trough? I've never come across this in the forum/videos. (see pic)

3: Felt the stone.
Question: Are small divots in the stone normal? at any time (after truing/grading...)? (see pic)

4. Sharpened the blade both sides. Very rough, could see ragged edges.
Question: Is there a number for the grit directly after truing a stone? (assume the 90 sec per instruction manual)

5. Used the SP-650 grader, rough side. Portions of the stone felt (and Sounded) like it grabbed the grader while the stone rotated more than others.
Question: do I have a bad SG stone if portions of it 'grab' the stone grader while grading? user error?
It looks like the forum doesn't post videos directly, I'll upload to youtube and link if anybody is confused about this.

6. Sharpened the knife, still rough, not quite as bad.

7. Graded SG with fine side. Stone still 'grabbed' at the grader at certain positions.

8. Sharpened knife.

9. I added some honing oil, since the wheel was completely dry (wary of over-oil'ing per a lot of comments on the forum) and honed the knife.
Question: what should my honing wheel look like in terms of color/shininess/etc? I haven't seen any posts with good pics as examples.

10. I went back to the 1000 grit and sharpened some more, added some honing compound and was much happier with the results. Still not sure about the status of my honing wheel oil level.

11. Watching this video: https://youtu.be/UckPmizllk0 - What are the components in the grading device he uses? Where can I find the 1000 grit mesh plate if that's what that is? What else does he have attached to the SE-76 jig?

12. How often do you true your stone after you've gone through hand grading it between the 200/1000 grit/sharpening knives?

Please see the pictures and give any comments/advice/answers.

[cbwx34]

Thanks for taking the time to read and help me, folks. I really appreciate. I've watched and read a lot of posts/videos on the forums, but I these questions are either not explained well enough for my mind or haven't been covered yet - often posts lack good pictures to help identify the problem/solution.
These are the steps I did today, hopefully the pictures will attach themselves in order.

1: True the SG-250 stone using TT-50.
Question: are the occasional flecks of diamond normal as opposed to the whole surface of the tip being the same? The stone experienced two 'cuts' as the tip crossed the stone, leaving two visible lines traveling across the stone while truing. (see pic)

Not sure there is a "standard" on the tip... see this thread.  Mine only has a couple of diamonds, but seems to do ok truing the wheel.  (Consider contacting Tormek support, if you don't think it's working well).  More diamonds should get exposed over time.

2: Replace the water after truing - water turned all milky.
Question: when/whether to replace the water in the trough? I've never come across this in the forum/videos. (see pic)

Yes the water turns "milky", that's normal.  I put in fresh water after truing... not that it's necessarily required, just makes the job cleaner.  And I dump the water at the end of the day and/or sharpening session. (I start fresh each day that I sharpen).

3: Felt the stone.
Question: Are small divots in the stone normal? at any time (after truing/grading...)? (see pic)

Yes.

4. Sharpened the blade both sides. Very rough, could see ragged edges.
Question: Is there a number for the grit directly after truing a stone? (assume the 90 sec per instruction manual)

That "ragged edge" is just a massive burr.  The stone is fairly coarse after truing, (probably more than the 220g setting).  Sharpening should be done at 1000g... you only need the stone more coarse for major reprofiles, repairs, chips, etc.  (Translation, too coarse for what you were doing at this stage).

5. Used the SP-650 grader, rough side. Portions of the stone felt (and Sounded) like it grabbed the grader while the stone rotated more than others.
Question: do I have a bad SG stone if portions of it 'grab' the stone grader while grading? user error?
It looks like the forum doesn't post videos directly, I'll upload to youtube and link if anybody is confused about this.

I doubt it's a bad stone... you'd notice it more than just during grading... but I'll defer to others who may know better.

6. Sharpened the knife, still rough, not quite as bad.

Again, probably graded too rough for sharpening.

7. Graded SG with fine side. Stone still 'grabbed' at the grader at certain positions.

8. Sharpened knife.

9. I added some honing oil, since the wheel was completely dry (wary of over-oil'ing per a lot of comments on the forum) and honed the knife.
Question: what should my honing wheel look like in terms of color/shininess/etc? I haven't seen any posts with good pics as examples.

Did you also add honing compound? (Or is that what you mean by oil?)  I don't see anything wrong in your pictures.  Over time, the honing wheel will turn black with use... the fact that there is some black on it now means it's working (if that is what I'm seeing).  "Over oiling" is actually using too much of the oil that comes with newer machines, (or something like 3in1 oil)... that is what can be overdone... not really compound.

10. I went back to the 1000 grit and sharpened some more, added some honing compound and was much happier with the results. Still not sure about the status of my honing wheel oil level.

I'm not sure if you're calling the compound (in the yellow tube) "oil".  You can't really add too much compound... although if you add more than a little at a time, it'll just build up on the knife.  As for oil, just a light coat seems to be what most agree on, after that just add compound.  (The compound also has oil in it, so you shouldn't need to add oil after the initial coating).  Final picture of the knife looks pretty good to me.

11. Watching this video: https://youtu.be/UckPmizllk0 - What are the components in the grading device he uses? Where can I find the 1000 grit mesh plate if that's what that is? What else does he have attached to the SE-76 jig?

May want to send a message to forum member wootz (that is his video).  I think the stone is one like this, but not for sure.

12. How often do you true your stone after you've gone through hand grading it between the 200/1000 grit/sharpening knives?

No set rule really... I tend to grade a bit more often than I used to, as soon as I notice it starting to look/feel "out of round", but can't really give you a "how often" rule, I just go by how it looks & feels during use.  As Ken has said, better to take a little more often than a lot not as often... plus it makes sharpening better.

Please see the pictures and give any comments/advice/answers.

That's my .02... hope it helps!  I'm sure others will chime in.

[RichColvin]

Tim,

I've added a few thoughts below also.  My comments are in red; CB's are in blue.

Kind regards,
Rich

Thanks for taking the time to read and help me, folks. I really appreciate. I've watched and read a lot of posts/videos on the forums, but I these questions are either not explained well enough for my mind or haven't been covered yet - often posts lack good pictures to help identify the problem/solution.
These are the steps I did today, hopefully the pictures will attach themselves in order.

1: True the SG-250 stone using TT-50.
Question: are the occasional flecks of diamond normal as opposed to the whole surface of the tip being the same? The stone experienced two 'cuts' as the tip crossed the stone, leaving two visible lines traveling across the stone while truing. (see pic)

Not sure there is a "standard" on the tip... see this thread.  Mine only has a couple of diamonds, but seems to do ok truing the wheel.  (Consider contacting Tormek support, if you don't think it's working well).  More diamonds should get exposed over time.

I've seen pictures from a number of users, and we all have small flecks of diamonds.  That's normal.

2: Replace the water after truing - water turned all milky.
Question: when/whether to replace the water in the trough? I've never come across this in the forum/videos. (see pic)

Yes the water turns "milky", that's normal.  I put in fresh water after truing... not that it's necessarily required, just makes the job cleaner.  And I dump the water at the end of the day and/or sharpening session. (I start fresh each day that I sharpen).

I sometimes dump the water, sometimes not.  But, if you don't dump it, the sediment will settle and the water will clear up.  The true key is not to leave the stone sitting in the water.  That is far more critical.

3: Felt the stone.
Question: Are small divots in the stone normal? at any time (after truing/grading...)? (see pic)

Yes.. Agree.

4. Sharpened the blade both sides. Very rough, could see ragged edges.
Question: Is there a number for the grit directly after truing a stone? (assume the 90 sec per instruction manual)

That "ragged edge" is just a massive burr.  The stone is fairly coarse after truing, (probably more than the 220g setting).  Sharpening should be done at 1000g... you only need the stone more coarse for major reprofiles, repairs, chips, etc.  (Translation, too coarse for what you were doing at this stage).. Agree.

5. Used the SP-650 grader, rough side. Portions of the stone felt (and Sounded) like it grabbed the grader while the stone rotated more than others.
Question: do I have a bad SG stone if portions of it 'grab' the stone grader while grading? user error?
It looks like the forum doesn't post videos directly, I'll upload to youtube and link if anybody is confused about this.

I doubt it's a bad stone... you'd notice it more than just during grading... but I'll defer to others who may know better.

I find that happens too, but figured it was just me.  Even seems to happen on the SB stone (which I use more).  I've never noticed it cause a problem with sharpening though.

6. Sharpened the knife, still rough, not quite as bad.

Again, probably graded too rough for sharpening..

The other thought is that you may be putting too much pressure onto the process.  Try with a very light hand.  This is something that I had to learn over the years, and is stressed by many on this forum.

7. Graded SG with fine side. Stone still 'grabbed' at the grader at certain positions.

8. Sharpened knife.

9. I added some honing oil, since the wheel was completely dry (wary of over-oil'ing per a lot of comments on the forum) and honed the knife.
Question: what should my honing wheel look like in terms of color/shininess/etc? I haven't seen any posts with good pics as examples.

Did you also add honing compound? (Or is that what you mean by oil?)  I don't see anything wrong in your pictures.  Over time, the honing wheel will turn black with use... the fact that there is some black on it now means it's working (if that is what I'm seeing).  "Over oiling" is actually using too much of the oil that comes with newer machines, (or something like 3in1 oil)... that is what can be overdone... not really compound.

Agree.

10. I went back to the 1000 grit and sharpened some more, added some honing compound and was much happier with the results. Still not sure about the status of my honing wheel oil level.

I'm not sure if you're calling the compound (in the yellow tube) "oil".  You can't really add too much compound... although if you add more than a little at a time, it'll just build up on the knife.  As for oil, just a light coat seems to be what most agree on, after that just add compound.  (The compound also has oil in it, so you shouldn't need to add oil after the initial coating).  Final picture of the knife looks pretty good to me.

Again, agree.

11. Watching this video: https://youtu.be/UckPmizllk0 - What are the components in the grading device he uses? Where can I find the 1000 grit mesh plate if that's what that is? What else does he have attached to the SE-76 jig?

May want to send a message to forum member wootz (that is his video).  I think the stone is one like this, but not for sure.

Wootz is really good, and has contributed much to improving the process.  You should send him a PM via the forum.

12. How often do you true your stone after you've gone through hand grading it between the 200/1000 grit/sharpening knives?

No set rule really... I tend to grade a bit more often than I used to, as soon as I notice it starting to look/feel "out of round", but can't really give you a "how often" rule, I just go by how it looks & feels during use.  As Ken has said, better to take a little more often than a lot not as often... plus it makes sharpening better.

Agree.

Please see the pictures and give any comments/advice/answers.

[timpaulgeorge]

Thanks for your replies guys!
1: great thread on the tips.
2: The true key is not to leave the stone sitting in the water.  That is far more critical.
Is that because the extra sediment on the stone will cut the metal unevenly? or that one part of the stone will become water-logged compared to other spots?
3: interesting. Is that because the bonding on the stone has released at that point? Seems an interesting feature.
4: I wanted to re-profile the bevel on the knife so that's why I went from super coarse-finer. Interesting that the ragged edge was the burr, it almost looked like the edge was getting chipped by the knife.
5: Anybody else that I should contact directly with 'grabbing' while grading? Thanks for your thoughts and experience.
6: The other thought is that you may be putting too much pressure onto the process.  Try with a very light hand.  This is something that I had to learn over the years, and is stressed by many on this forum.
Interesting, all the little tidbits I remember hearing mentioned even but firm pressure. The last sharpening pass I did was just the supported weight of the blade, which turned out nicely I think.
7: Did you also add honing compound? (Or is that what you mean by oil?)
I was specific with my wording I added oil first because it looked so very dry. Later on I added the compound.
11: I'll shoot Wootz a message.
12: It would be nice if there was a hard set line on re-true'ing. Guesswork leaves room for error :p

Thanks again folks!

[cbwx34]

Thanks for your replies guys!
1: great thread on the tips.
2: The true key is not to leave the stone sitting in the water.  That is far more critical.
Is that because the extra sediment on the stone will cut the metal unevenly? or that one part of the stone will become water-logged compared to other spots?
3: interesting. Is that because the bonding on the stone has released at that point? Seems an interesting feature.
4: I wanted to re-profile the bevel on the knife so that's why I went from super coarse-finer. Interesting that the ragged edge was the burr, it almost looked like the edge was getting chipped by the knife.
5: Anybody else that I should contact directly with 'grabbing' while grading? Thanks for your thoughts and experience.
6: The other thought is that you may be putting too much pressure onto the process.  Try with a very light hand.  This is something that I had to learn over the years, and is stressed by many on this forum.
Interesting, all the little tidbits I remember hearing mentioned even but firm pressure. The last sharpening pass I did was just the supported weight of the blade, which turned out nicely I think.
7: Did you also add honing compound? (Or is that what you mean by oil?)
I was specific with my wording I added oil first because it looked so very dry. Later on I added the compound.
11: I'll shoot Wootz a message.
12: It would be nice if there was a hard set line on re-true'ing. Guesswork leaves room for error :p

Thanks again folks!

I'll answer some....

4 & 6.  99.9% sure that's a burr.  And Rich is right... you can use light pressure to sharpen on a more coarse stone.  And you were right to finish with a light pass (regardless of grit level), that is my preferred technique.
5.  Contact Tormek support directly.
7.  I was confused because you said you added honing oil and then honed the knife without mentioning adding any compound before honing (and it's not called "honing oil").   You can hone without compound... but that's usually on an edge that is already very refined (like a shaving razor), and already as "burr free" as possible.
12.  You're right it's a bit subjective... I think the "error" would be waiting until the stone is obviously out of round.  (I looked in the book... all it says is "slight unevenness").  On the flip side, there's no real harm if you wait a bit longer... just may take a little longer to bring it back to true... so I guess that's why there's no set rule?

[RichColvin]

Thanks for your replies guys!
2: The true key is not to leave the stone sitting in the water.  That is far more critical.
Is that because the extra sediment on the stone will cut the metal unevenly? or that one part of the stone will become water-logged compared to other spots?

No.  The issue is that, if you do not lower the water tray, the grindstone will not dry out.  And indeed, the grindstone will wick the water onto the shaft eventually causing rust or other sediment hardening.  This won't damage the grindstone; however, it will make removing the grindstone harder (and possibly damage the shaft).

There are some who even remove the grindstone when not in use, storing it in a way where it would dry.  I've some more information about that on my SharpeningHandbook.info site.  The direct link to that page is :

          http://sharpeninghandbook.info/Grindstones-Storing.html

Kind regards,
Rich

[Pastor_Zatx]

This is the only one I'm going to tackle...

Where can I find the 1000 grit mesh plate if that's what that is?

That is just a cheap diamond plate, you can get them at Harbor Freight or Amazon for around $3-$4.  Looks like he used double-sided tape or some other adhesive to attach it to the jig.