Chips on Edge of Diamond Wheel (DF-250)

[RickKrung]

...snip...
Rick,

On a practical level, would the chip in your photo cause any grinding problem?

Ken

Ken asked the above question about a chip in the edge of my SJ stone.  It doesn't seem to matter with the SJ stone, but I am concerned about similar but smaller chips in the edge of my DF-250 diamond wheel. 

There are two chips, one larger.  I hear a ticking sound as at least one passes under a knife, I assume the larger.  I'm not happy with these photos (from my phone) as they are not as in focus as I'd like.  I'm waiting for my digital camera to charge to try to get some using the macro feature.  If that fails, I'll try my disecting microscope. 

Under 60X hand scope, the larger one appears to be an area missing some of the diamond coating.  The shiny part near the bottom left (trailing edge) appears to be that coating (or something) smashed/smeared against the lower boundary of the chip.  It appears elevated, which would be consistent with the ticking noise. 


Here is the second chip.  This one seems to be missing the chunk of coating that had been there, but nothing on the trailing edge.  There are a numbe of shiny specks spread over the surface of this part of the DF-250 wheel and they appear to be smashed down peaks of coating.  I cannot tell if they contain diamond which has also been smashed down.


I have not sent this in to Tormek Support for their appraisal, but plan on doing that.  I've been really careful with these diamond wheels, to keep them from bumping into each other or anything else.  During a session, I store them strung on a 12mm stainless rod that spans beyond the width of the plastic milk crate that I use for transporting them and my other stuff.  For transport, they are laid flat with a clean hand towel laid flat over each one.  At no time do any of the wheels touch another. 

I don't even know what question to ask.  I guess I'm just putting it out there to see what others think. 

Rick

[marie]

Hi Rick,

Could you please email our support at support@tormek.se about this? They will be able to give you the best advice.
Please include photos and/or video.

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards,
Marie - Marketing Manager, Tormek

[RickKrung]

Marie,

Yes, thank you.  I am planning on doing that.  I'm still trying to get decent photos of it.  My digital camera did not come through so I am going to try my dissecting microscope.  I can also try to capture the ticking in a video.

Rick

[Ken S]

Thank you for posting, Marie.

My first reaction when a member starts a topic involving a Tormek product which is not working properly is to refer the member to support. I have consulted support numerous times over the years for personal or forum matters and can recommend them highly. Tormek has outstanding customer service, and the best and quickest way to get customer service is through support. Repairs are rare with Tormek. Tormek support/repair service has handled them for over forty years. Chances are that whatever the issue, they already have experience handling it.

Ken

[RickKrung]

Tormek Support has responded.  I've added the photos that I sent to them. 

Not entirely what I was hoping for, but I have no reason to doubt them at this point.  It is comforting of sorts that there appear to be no diamonds in the mounded area that might cause scratches or other issues in the grinding results.  I have not noticed anything thus far.  I'll keep on using it and if anything more develops, will get back to them.

I am very disappointed in my ability to get decent photos, however.  It is very frustrating as I've invested a fair bit into trying, but I don't think it would make any difference in Tormek's assessment. 

Rick

On 10/12/2018 5:20 AM, Tormek support wrote:
> Hello Rick.
>
> Thank you for your mail.
> It is a bit hard to see in the pictures, but I think you are correct. There seem to be a high spot that have chipped from the surface.
> This would not affect the performance of the wheel or the result on your tools.
> What you hear when the tool passes the area is the high spot that is left from the binding material that been packed on top of the surface..
>   The marks on that area indicate that there is no diamond on this spot and should not damage your tools.
> If this problem accelerate, or more and larger portion of the surface material disappear please let us know.
> We will if it gets worse, replace this wheel and have it sent back to us for testing.
> At this stage there is nothing to worry about.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Mats Wuolo
>
> www.tormek.com
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: Richard Kruger <krugerr@easystreet.net>
> Skickat: den 11 oktober 2018 22:02
> Till: Tormek support <support@tormek.se>
> Ämne: Chip in Side of DF-250 Diamond Grind Wheel
>
> Support,
>
> Hi,  I have a set of all three diamond grind wheels.  The DF I have had the longest, perhaps two months, the other two more recent.  A short while ago, I noticed a chip in the outer diameter at the corner.  It appears to be a portion of the diamond/binder that came loose and some of it appears to be compressed against the downstream edge of the fracture zone.  The length of the fracture zone is about 2mm, and about 1mm wide.  The compressed material has a shiny, scrapped over appearance and is very much like the numerous small spots all over the surface. The appear to have been high spots that have been smashed down and smoothed by the grinding action.  I don't know if this means those areas are damaged due to too much pressure applied to the object being ground, or if this is a normal part of wearing in.
>
> There are some photos included in the linked thread from the Tormek Forum, https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3768.0  Marie, Tormek Marketing Manager saw my post and recommended that I forward all this to you.
>
> Those photos are not very good, having been taken with iPhone. I've tried taking others, with a digital camera (total fail) and those attached here were taken using a dissecting microscope.  I'm not very happy with them either, but its what I can do at this point.  I've cropped a couple to get the file size down a bit.  Most of my originals are 13-14 MB and my email system will only allow me to send one at a time.  I'm happy to send full sized originals if it would help.
>
> I would like your assessment of what might have happened with the chip/fracture area.  I hear a ticking sound as a blade is ground and I am assuming it is from the elevated material that is smashed on the trialing edge of the fracture zone.  I am concerned about the affects of that on grinding.
>
> Thanks In Advance,
>
> Rick Kruger
> Halfway, Oregon, USA
> krugerr@easystreet.net
> 503-860-63246
>
>
>
>

[Exact Blade]

Hi Everyone,

I'm Dan owner of Exact Blade Inc. in Northbrook IL. In the last 48 months, I have over 6000 hours on the Tormek wheels combined.  I was exited about the Diamond series wheels, but no data on how long they would last. I got the DF250 (fine) and it wore out. It doesn't have chips, but the diamond surface wore off the face on the inside of the wheel, perhaps a high spot? Either way it was used just a few times in 3 weeks on the T8 and T7.  We get all our Tormek supplies from Affinity, the US distributor for Tormek or Sharpeningsupplies.com. 
Darren at Sharpening Supplies has a 90 day return and I asked if they could send (swap) me the DC250, coarse. I'm sending the DF250 fine back; I seriously doubt i will get another DF250 unless someone can prove to me they have used it for more than a year or sharpened over 500 items without issue. I'm very disappointed because the concept of a firm square wheel that does not need to be dressed could make us alot of money.  The execution seems failed at this point. 

[Ken S]

Dan,

Your experience with the DF-250 is certainly distressing. If you have not already done so, you should contact Tormek support (support@tormek.se). You make no mention of adapting your grinding technique to the diamond wheel (much less grinding pressure). You make no mention of using the wheel with the Anti Corrosion Compound, as recommended by Tormek. You mention wanting to swap your fine wheel for the DC-250 coarser wheel, which makes me wonder if you were using the wrong grit wheel for your purpose.

Glenn Lucas and Nick Agar, both experienced professional turners, used the diamond wheels for a year before they were released for sale. I assume there were other testers as well. The DF-250 is the same grit as the DWF-200, which comes with the T2. Your complaint is the first I have read of its kind on the forum.

I do not mean to accuse you of anything; I am merely trying to put together the full story. Let's get to the bottom of this.

Ken

[dadinthegarageww]

Hello,.

Recent Tormek buyer, I purchased the T8 and got the wife's seal of approval since I got our kitchen knives razor sharp

I was lookin at buying the DF 250 fine diamond stone, but don't see good reviews about it. Granted this thread is way back from 2018. Instead of starting a new thread, I wanted to follow up on this one so we don't have multiple threads on the same subject for others in my position.

Has the diamond wheels improved any to not have chips, and high points and truly be true? Are they now improved to be able to hold the surface longer as opposed to becoming worn out after short while?

Thank you all and very excited to be part of the Tormek community

A

[RickKrung]

For what its worth, I don't really agree that the DF wheel (and the others) haven't gotten good reviews. Yes, there have been some minor issues, but for my part, the chip I was reporting/complaining about is not adversely affecting my use it.  I used all three routinely, hardly put on the SG or SB anymore. 

I will also say that I think a new user should not jump right away into getting anything more than the SG stone until they develop proficiency and gain experience with the range of things they need to sharpen.  This includes the SJ stone. 

Rick

[highpower]

Hello,.

Recent Tormek buyer, I purchased the T8 and got the wife's seal of approval since I got our kitchen knives razor sharp

I was lookin at buying the DF 250 fine diamond stone, but don't see good reviews about it. Granted this thread is way back from 2018. Instead of starting a new thread, I wanted to follow up on this one so we don't have multiple threads on the same subject for others in my position.

Has the diamond wheels improved any to not have chips, and high points and truly be true? Are they now improved to be able to hold the surface longer as opposed to becoming worn out after short while?

Thank you all and very excited to be part of the Tormek community

A

I can't answer your question right now, but I guess I'll find out for myself in the future. The big brown truck is supposed to deliver a new DF-250 to me later this evening. As far as reviews go I was only able to find one negative one on Amazon and I believe it was for a DC-250 wheel. I suspect however that this was likely a case of user abuse (using too much pressure)  rather than a defective product. I have no proof one way or the other for either case. I suppose anything is possible.

[John_B]

For what its worth, I don't really agree that the DF wheel (and the others) haven't gotten good reviews. Yes, there have been some minor issues, but for my part, the chip I was reporting/complaining about is not adversely affecting my use it.  I used all three routinely, hardly put on the SG or SB anymore. 

I will also say that I think a new user should not jump right away into getting anything more than the SG stone until they develop proficiency and gain experience with the range of things they need to sharpen.  This includes the SJ stone. 

Rick

I also agree with Rick about developing your skill on the SG stone before investing in additional ones. From my research the diamond stones require a lighter touch than the SG stone. Having a good feel for what is a light touch is best developed refining edges on an SG stone.

I have not seen many negative reviews for the diamond wheel series other than this thread. Here it was primarily 2 users.

[dadinthegarageww]

That is good feedback. Thank you y'all. I'll work on this one and get more comfortable before venturing out on more exotic stones. The kitchen knives I sharpened is really awesome. Just blown away by how quick it was to do.

[Ken S]

Dad,

Be sure to watch the Tormek online classes, especially the latest with Stig Reitan.

https://youtu.be/8uLMWXqobRM

Ken

[highpower]

Just for comparison I took a few pics of a brand new DF-250 wheel that UPS delivered to me late last night. This is right out of the box - the wheel has never been on the machine. I only found a few minor blemishes in the diamond surfaces and I don't think they are any cause of concern. None found on the outer corners of the wheels circumference at all. There are a half-dozen tiny spots (1mm - 2mm) around the side of the wheel near the center depression that are bare steel with no diamond coating. Very small and out of the way so no issue there.

There is one small 'blob' of something on the wheel circumference that looks like it might be some type of resin/ceramic material? I don't know. It runs in a line across the OD of the wheel and is approximately 8mm long and sits roughly 5mm away from the inside edge of the wheel. I don't feel any 'lump' there with my finger so I think it is pretty well level with the diamond surface around it. I will keep an eye on it to see if anything breaks loose from the steel substrate in the future.

I don't think I have anything to worry about at this point. Just FYI.
And I am certainly no photographer, so go easy please.