Scissor Jig Set Up Has me Stumped!

[PGB1]

Hi All!
I've never tried scissors on the Tormek until today and I'm stumped. I seem to be missing the concept of the scissor jig.

Following the instructions in the Tormek Grinding Handbook, I set the scissor in the jig with 3mm of blade protruding. At the scissor angle of 60 degrees, the back of the jig will hit the stone. I tried many scissors of varying blade widths. The widest is about 20mm and the smallest about 10mm.

I have to let about 13mm of blade past the edge of the jig (versus 3mm in the handbook).
Example photos are attached.

In the first attached photo, the blade is 22mm wide where the cutting edge begins, so they aren't small scissors. The blue line is where the actual cutting edge starts.

In the second photo (pink handle), the scissors can not be in the jig at their 40 degree angle without the back of the jig hitting the stone. The blade on that pair is 12mm wide. Actually, at almost any angle with only a frighteningly small part of the blade clamped, the jig will hit the stone.

I can only conclude that I am not understanding the instructions. I'm certain the Tormek Scissor Jig can hold scissors much smaller than the ones I am trying to work with. Do any of you know what I'm doing wrong and what part of the concept I am missing? I sure appreciate your help, advice & guidance!

Paul

[stevebot]

The Tormek jig is designed for scissors ground at 80 to 90 degrees. Better scissors today are being ground at 60 to 70 degrees. I recommend:
1. A Twice As Sharp dedicated scissor sharpener, or
2. A Viel sander with their scissor jig.

[PGB1]

Thank You Stevebot for your advice!

I suppose some of my frustration was trying to use the jig to sharpen 60 degree scissors, noting that the Tormek Grinding Handbook  Edition 9.7 says "A common edge angle is 60 degrees.". My jig must be a newer design than the one that was available when the Edition 9.7 was written.

With some thought, I suppose I can make a suitable jig for the less-than-90-degree scissors we own. (All of them.)
Hand grinding good scissors is not an option for someone with my diminished eye sight. It won't go well, but the end result will surely be amusing!

The tools you mentioned are quite interesting. For the small amount of scissors I sharpen, the dedicated scissor sharpener would sit idle, but I've always wanted a good quality vertical belt sander. The Viel looks to be of very good construction & would find much use around the shop. Time to start saving...

Thanks Again!
Paul

[GKC]

Paul:  As another newcomer to the Tormek, but with no problems sharpening scissors on the scissors jig, I was puzzled by the difficulty you encountered.  I am easily able to sharpen scissors at 60 degrees, using only ~3mm of blade protruding in front of the jig.  The jig does not come close to hitting the stone--it is at least 3mm away.  To test the limits of the jig, I found that you can grind an edge angle as acute as 40 degrees on the scissors blade without the jig hitting the stone.

I tried but could not replicate the jig-hitting-stone situation you encountered.  I doubt that you are using the jig incorrectly because it is so simple, but you could be using the Anglemaster at the wrong registration points.  If so, this could tell you to tilt the jig far past what is appropriate for the 60 degree angle, and this could cause the jig to hit the stone.  (Another confounder could be tapered scissors blades, which add both clamping and angle-setting complexity, but the scissors in your picture don't seem to be of that type.)

By the way, as usual, the Jeff Farris video on the scissors jig is instructive (link below).  He is doing a 60 degree grind.  He points out that the use of the Anglemaster on the scissors jig is tricky, and suggests that you register the Anglemaster on the platform (not the jig) so that you can see what you are doing.  Because the base of the jig is a 10 degree wedge, when you use the Anglemaster on the platform you have to set the Anglemaster to a reading that is 10 degrees higher than your desired edge angle (for example, set the Anglemaster at 70 degrees for a 60 degree edge angle). Then, the mounted scissors will grind at the desired angle.

By the way, the most recent edition of the Tormek manual is the same as yours: it still refers to the 60 degree grind, and this is a common angle.

I would try it again if I were you, the jig works. 

Link to Farris video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGFeBd8ZspM
(if the link doesn't work, go to YouTube and search Farris Tormek scissors)

Gord

P.S. About the Viel belt grinder, you don't need one to sharpen your scissors, but it is a good grinder/sharpener to have in the shop anyway.

[PGB1]

Thank You Gord for taking time to reply & for the excellent advice.
I apologize for how long it took for me to post this Thanks. I wished to wait to reply until I (finally) had time to use the Tormek again.

Honestly, I now don't know why I was having stone hitting trouble every time I set up a 60 degree scissor.
After reading your post and viewing the video that you linked, I was able to test set-up with several pair of scissors. Each one was 60 degrees and the jig and support plate cleared the stone every time.

Often, I do have much trouble conceptualizing angles due to dyslexia, so maybe each of the earlier attempts were on 'bad' days. (Actually, no day is a bad day as long as we woke up breathing!)

The video you linked really helped me see the set up process and I like his plan to add 10 degrees and register the Angle Master against the Support Plate. That made it much easier to view the registration. I searched around and viewed many of Mr. Farris' videos. They are very helpful as I learn the Tormke system.

Thank You Again for helping out. I hope you enjoy this day!
Paul