much confusion

[craigsalisbury]

Hi All,

Im fairly new to sharpening and even newer to Tormek, a couple of weeks ago bought the T-4, straight edge and knife jigs to use at home.  Bearing in mind my total arsenal consists of 4 chisels, 2 blane blades and 3 knives, this is probably overkill but it has to be easier than doing it by hand.

So heres the confusion,  should the standard wheel be square out the box?  I dont personally think we should be expected to by a truing jig to start using a product.  I say this because everything i put in the straight edge jig comes out wonky, i.e. it seems to grind at an angle.

Am i missing something or do i need to get the wallet out again?

Cheers

Craig 

[jeffs55]

Your wheel should have 90 degree angles to the sides. It can be tricky to set up for chisels so you need to make sure it is NOT you. Do you have a square to test your set up? If not, do you have a level of any kind? If you have a level and not a square, attach the level to the wall in an exactly level plain. If it is a simple bubble level this is going to be trial and error. Assuming you have the level in a 180 degree position, tie a string to it with a weight on the end. Let the weighted string hang free. The angle it makes with the level IF the level is 180 degrees will be 90 degrees. Adjust your tool holder to the 90 degree angle as necessary. Best option is go to Horror Freight and buy a machinist square. Then you can check your wheel at the same time. You can also go to a  lot of stores and buy a tool of some sort that indicates 90 or 45 degrees usually. A childs protractor will tell you if the plumb line from your supposedly level level is in fact 90 degrees when compared to the guess what, level. In short, you need a reference tool if you cannot eyeball the angle.

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Craig.

And, welcome to the learning curve. We have all been there. New Tormek grinding wheels are generally true from the factory. It would be a safe bet to say that you do not need to open up your wallet right away. In fact, it would be interesting to take a poll and see how long (in years) it took for most of us to initially true our grinding wheels. I confess to having been guilty of this initially.

Truing new grinding wheels before initial use is commonly accepted good practice for all grinders. That said, you should plan to purchase a TT-50 truing tool eventually. Do not be tempted to purchase the older model to save money. The TT-50 is substantially improved. Also, the TT-50U model does not come with the diamond. The U is for upgrade, allowing users with the earlier model to reuse their diamond cluster.

For the record, I have used my T4 since they were introduced. I really like it; it is every millimeter a Tormek.

Jeff makes a good point about using a small combination square. Unless you are on a very tight budget, I would recommend a better quality unit. Starrett makes the best. They are life long tools and very useful. If Starrett is too pricey for you, try to come as close as possible. A square is most effective when used early and often before you grind away too much metal.

The T4 probably is overkill for your vast collection of tools and knives, however, what delightful overkill. Work slowly and develop your skill. You will soon be an old Tormek hand. Keep learning and keep posting. Be sure to study Jeff Farris' Tormek you tubes.

Ken

[craigsalisbury]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.  I do indeed have a small collection of squares so i'll check that when i get home.  Id like to see a poll of how many buggered up their honing wheel within the first hour of use by accidentally putting the blade the wrong way  (I have a new one on order).

the tipping point for my purchase was that my 3 knives were expensive damascus steel Japanese knives which i had sent for sharpening once and they came back with horrible grinding marks, and as im useless with a stone I thought this would be a great option.  im very tempted to get the Japanese waterstone for the tormek when things progress

Ill certainly keep updating with my journey but im loving it so far, i managed to get a square edge on a plane blade, but alas it was but not having it snug against the edge of the jig and a bit of trial and error.

[Ken S]

Craig,

Do not become discouraged. Like the rest of us, you are psying "tool tuition". I would be very surprised if you ruined another leather honing wheel. You are moving forward!

I will write more later.

Ken

[craigsalisbury]

Ken,

Yes i dont think ill be doing that again   So i checked the stone and its square, I also checked the stone against the universal support whic is also in alignment, so it must be the SE-77 or user error, i reckon its the latter but could easily be the camber adjustment.

I dont get discouraged easily and like a challenge to improve....so heres looking forward

Craig.

[Ken S]

Craig, (I wrote this before reading your last reply, while waiting for my car to bo serviced.)

I think the biggest difficulty we all have in learning to become fluent with the Tormek is overcoming our self imposed obstacles. We become frustrated because our skill level is not the same at the level as our job proficiency. We forget that we spent years honing those skills, through university or trade school education and/or On the Job Training. We need patience, an often rare wisdom.

We need to realize that "tool tuition" is a necessary part of learning. Part of tool tuition is realizing that our precious Tormek grinding wheels, like brake shoes, are consumables. The real precious components are the people who use the tools we sharpen.

Let your squares be part of your early warning system. Start checking your work right away. It will build confidence if you are grinding square. It will also let you course correct early in the process. By the way, make sure your square square. Draw a perpendicular line from a straight line. Flip the square over and draw another line The lines should match.

You have some very nice knives. Would you teach your child to drive with your prized Ferrari or your everyday Ford? I suggest you get some Ford knives for your learning process. In fact, what I really recommend is learning with 3/4" Irwin Blue Chip chisels. The size is user friendly. The chisel is the most simple edge to sharpen. The Blue chips have reasonably good steel at a bargain price. Having more than one lets you compare edges. (I have almost a dozen, all 3/4". Two or three is a good number.) Read the first topic (tips and techniques) I posted on this. It is locked in the first slot. Time spent learning the basics will serve you well. I know the knife people think using chisels is a waste of time. I respect their right to be wrong..... 

Don't buy another grinding wheel before mastering your SG. You will know when you reach that point. At that point you may or may not feel you need the Japanese wheel.

Enough for one reply.

Hang in there!

Ken

[craigsalisbury]

Thanks for the sound advice Ken,

I do have a couple of old chisels I intend to grind to a nub for learning and getting some cheap knives is a damn fine idea.  I lastly checked the SE-77 with some calipers and a square and its all well aligned.  I'm definitely going to employ the sharpie idea to make sure im aligned square before powering the wheel, I think that will help a great deal.

I think I automatically thought it would be a magic bullet to instant success, you never really think how much people have learned to perfect their results when they make it look soo easy on youtube.

Back to the grindstone as they say i have a lot of learning to do.

Regards

Craig.

[Ken S]

Craig,

The SE-77 finally introduced controlled camber, which is very nice for plane blades. It is a great tool, however, the same flexibility which benefits plane blades can hinder chisels. This is not a problem if you keep your square handy.

Keep up the good work!

Ken