Newbie trying to figure angle for popular narrow bevel folding knives

[Frankly]

Hello,
I'm a second-day owner of a Tormek T4 Bushmater edition with the angle setter and the SVM45 knife sharpening jig. I'm primarily interested in sharpening popular commercial folding knives with 3-4" blades using AUS-8 to D2 steel. Also some larger fixed bushcraft type knives and a few axes and hatchets. I have some nicer Spyderco, ZT, Kershaw, Benchmade, Esse, OKC and also a couple artisan knives.

It was a good idea to start with some inexpensive beater knives! But so far everything is going very well except I do not feel comfortable using the Angle Setting device to set the distance between blade edge and tool rest because I really can not reliably get the face of the angle piece to rest on the narrow edge bevel of the knife.

What I have done is experiment with marker on the bevel and made an educated guess that most of my knives are between 35 to 40 degrees inclusive. And then use the coarser set of the stone to true up the bevel.

I have an illuminated magnified work light and can place it so I can see where the knife and stone meet, and I've made some guesses and checked myself that way as well.

And while I haven't found perfection yet, or gotten anything super sharp, I have been measuring and noting the distance between tool rest and blade edge in case I want to replicate.

Is this the way it's done? I haven't seen anything in the documentation that is better, nor on YouTube, but it feels a little janky to me, like I'm not really sure. I wish I could just figure out how long a distance I need to put a specific degree inclusive on all of my knives (mostly).

I've looked around the threads and have an inkling that someone develop a phone app for this and there are some other analog methods to figure this out... I'd sure appreciate a link to where the actual techniques are as opposed to the tangential (pun) discussions.

Otherwise the actual grinding is fun. I find honing the knives a little awkward because I have to come at it at an angle to avoid the spinning stone but I'll adapt.

Thank you, Viva Sweden! (I live in the town of Sweden in New York state so I'm Swedish too.)

[wootz]

Hi Frankly,
Production folders factory edge is 35-40 degrees, but is not the best in sense of performance and keenness you can put on it.

Both Aus-8 and D2 steel folders perform better at 12 dps (24 degrees included), harder alloys can be ground at 10 dps.
Unfortunately the design of short 3-4" blade folders not always allows to set that low angle with the knife jig.
I'd try if I can, and if not will grind at 30 degrees included.

For folding knives you need better precision of setting the angle, use one of the methods described in this thread
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2969.30

True the wheel thoroughly to have its surface flat and parallel with the US.
First sharpen a couple of junk folders to develop muscle memory.
When it comes to real sharpening, protect the handle with cling film and tape, and protect the clamping site with a cloth tape.

We are experts in sharpening high-end folders, don't hesitate to ask when you stumble upon some problem, you will and many times, believe me

[cbwx34]

Hello,
I'm a second-day owner of a Tormek T4 Bushmater edition with the angle setter and the SVM45 knife sharpening jig. I'm primarily interested in sharpening popular commercial folding knives with 3-4" blades using AUS-8 to D2 steel. Also some larger fixed bushcraft type knives and a few axes and hatchets. I have some nicer Spyderco, ZT, Kershaw, Benchmade, Esse, OKC and also a couple artisan knives.

It was a good idea to start with some inexpensive beater knives! But so far everything is going very well except I do not feel comfortable using the Angle Setting device to set the distance between blade edge and tool rest because I really can not reliably get the face of the angle piece to rest on the narrow edge bevel of the knife.

What I have done is experiment with marker on the bevel and made an educated guess that most of my knives are between 35 to 40 degrees inclusive. And then use the coarser set of the stone to true up the bevel.

I have an illuminated magnified work light and can place it so I can see where the knife and stone meet, and I've made some guesses and checked myself that way as well.

And while I haven't found perfection yet, or gotten anything super sharp, I have been measuring and noting the distance between tool rest and blade edge in case I want to replicate.

Is this the way it's done? I haven't seen anything in the documentation that is better, nor on YouTube, but it feels a little janky to me, like I'm not really sure. I wish I could just figure out how long a distance I need to put a specific degree inclusive on all of my knives (mostly).

I've looked around the threads and have an inkling that someone develop a phone app for this and there are some other analog methods to figure this out... I'd sure appreciate a link to where the actual techniques are as opposed to the tangential (pun) discussions.

Otherwise the actual grinding is fun. I find honing the knives a little awkward because I have to come at it at an angle to avoid the spinning stone but I'll adapt.

Thank you, Viva Sweden! (I live in the town of Sweden in New York state so I'm Swedish too.)

Welcome to the forum.

In my experience, matching the bevel that is on the knife, (or close to) is a good way to learn.  You will soon get an idea with a bit of practice, where the settings should be approximately.  Using the "marker method" is a good way to do it, with a bit of practice, it will become less "fussy" than what you're seeing now.

Rich Colvin's "Sharpening Calculator" is a good way to see if you want to use a calculator to set the angle... and also a good way to know what angle you're actually sharpening at.

There is also a booklet written by forum member Dutchman found HERE... that contains a chart that can be used to set angles.

A couple of points from your post...

You mention problems using the "Angle Setting" device (AngleMaster)... putting it on the "narrow edge bevel".  You can use the side of the knife to set the angle.  The diagrams and description on p. 54-55 of the manual show the difference.  (You do have to account for any taper in the blade from spine to edge though... I can expand on this if needed).

Although your idea of recording your measurements for future reference may be a good one... keep in mind that as the stone wears, these measurments will change (and it's not a direct correlation).  Rich's (and other) calculators adjust for this automatically (since the "true" angle is being set).

In summary, I would try Rich's calculator.  Your wheel should be 200mm... the only measurement you'll need is the "Projection Length" (distance between the blade edge and the Stop Collar on the jig) in mm.  Type in the desired angle (dps), and set the Universal Support height from the answer.  I would still mark the bevel with a marker, and make sure things are lining up appropriately.  If it's way off, I'd  double check before turning on the power.

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Frankly.

You have good replies from Wootz and CB, two of our most experienced folding knife sharpeners. My knife sharpening has been kitchen knives and inexpensive pocket knives, however, I do know something about bevel setting methods. (I confess to being the ken in kenjig. Incidentally, my original name for the jig was "Knife Setting Tool".) These various methods are all similar. The kenjig and I believe the other methods are based or inspired by Ton Nillisen (Dutchman's) grinding tables. The different methods have different audiences. Mine was oriented toward new or infrequent sharpeners. A second audience is the "weekend warrior" farmers market sharpener who must sharpen many different knives quickly.

Wootz' Knife Knife Grinders computer applet is designed for more precise work. As much as I like the kenjig, I belief the Knife Grinders program is a better choice for someone working with high end knives. The program is very reasonably priced and is easy to use.

Keep posting.

Ken

[Frankly]

Thank you all! I made good progress tonight and got some blades better than I ever have.