How can we jig this short & curved blade?

[Ken S]

This morning I was inspired to watch the horse carving video in the Tormek friends on the main website. I have watched all of these videos numerous times, and have never failed to benefit from them. This one seems very oriented to our situation sharpening knives.

The host is one of two sharpeners at a factory where the workers carve traditional wooden horses. He has the luxury of sharpening around sixty knives every week. These knives all start out the same, and their design seems ideally suited for the Tormek small blade holder. They have substantial wooden handles, a straight edge, and are made of high quality carbon steel. Truly they are a match made in heaven for the Tormek, especially when sharpened by a very experienced sharpener.

Most of us are not that fortunate. We must sharpen knives of all different designs and sizes, using primarily only one jig. While the Small blade holder and regular knife jig are an ideal match for the Mora carving knives, most of our knives are not quite as ideally suited for this jig. They are certainly with a tolerance range, however, if we could design the jigs for all of our knives from scratch, we would probably have half a dozen jig variations.

We of the forum are like the pianist who expects the piano to be in tune and well regulated. We are like the dedicated target shooter who takes his high quality pistols to a custom gunsmith to be accurized. We are like the furniture maker who wants his dovetail saw to be custom sharpened for superior results. We are like the gearheads who expect more than factory performance from our vehicles. And, we are unapologetic in this.

Even since only 2009, I have seen so many dramatic innovations and improvements in the Tormek. It was never bad; it is just better now, and, I am quite sure, will continue evolving. While most of the members do not have the expertise and equipment of the factory, we also do not have the constraint of having to generate enough revenue to support payroll. I see the combined ingenuity of Sweden and Members as a dynamic combination.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Hi,
One solution with short blades is to mount the jig as close to the handle as possible and pivot the handle on the knife upwards while sharpening and not follow the curve on the blade.

Sincerely,
Stig

True, but this depends on how much curve there is in the belly to tip area.  If there's a lot, lifting the handle will raise the angle as you approach the tip, and can also, ever so slightly, start to reshape the tip area to a more 'blunt' tip... (in other words, increase the angle between the spine and bevel, as you look at the knife from the side.  It's hard to notice at first).

[cbwx34]

This morning I was inspired to watch the horse carving video in the Tormek friends on the main website.

I like that video... I think it's one of the few times, where I've seen a sharpener "touch up the tip" like he does (at the 4:58 mark)...

https://youtu.be/BQI3TsjKnbU?t=4m58s

I do that too (at least on my knives)... gives that tip a little extra "zing".    (Doesn't take much at all).

[Stickan]

Hi,
One solution with short blades is to mount the jig as close to the handle as possible and pivot the handle on the knife upwards while sharpening and not follow the curve on the blade.

Sincerely,
Stig

True, but this depends on how much curve there is in the belly to tip area.  If there's a lot, lifting the handle will raise the angle as you approach the tip, and can also, ever so slightly, start to reshape the tip area to a more 'blunt' tip... (in other words, increase the angle between the spine and bevel, as you look at the knife from the side.  It's hard to notice at first).

The goal will be to get a edgeline that is constant. Some knifes need a crossing between lifting the handle and following the shape of the blade when you are sharpening them. And knowing this comes by experience. Using a marker and see how you need to use the different methods is a good start to understand how to sharpen most knifes.
Personally and after some thousand knifes I've sharpened I am able to use the jig solution we have. I have never felt that I need another solution except with the thinner blades which the SVM-00 jig helped with.

Sincerely,
Stig

[cbwx34]

The goal will be to get a edgeline that is constant. Some knifes need a crossing between lifting the handle and following the shape of the blade when you are sharpening them. And knowing this comes by experience. Using a marker and see how you need to use the different methods is a good start to understand how to sharpen most knifes.
Personally and after some thousand knifes I've sharpened I am able to use the jig solution we have. I have never felt that I need another solution except with the thinner blades which the SVM-00 jig helped with.

Sincerely,
Stig

For me, I look at other things, beside a constant edgeline.  The example I gave earlier (how is the tip affected?) is one.

Many Tormek users are perfectly content with the standard jig... nothing wrong with that.  But for me, having tried different ideas... I think there's room for improvement.  Time will tell I suppose...

I'm sure, after the number of knives you've sharpened... you probably are quite comfortable with the standard jig.

[Ken S]

I have no doubt that with his experience, Stig has completely master the standard Tormek knife jig. I have no doubt that Steve Bottorff has completely mastered disciplined freehand sharpening after his many years as a sharpener. I have no doubt that comparable masters have produced the same kind of results using half a dozen other methods.

I also have no doubts that the Tormek knife jigs of five years from now will be different than today's jigs, as will much of the Tormek line. Tormek is innovative and continually evolving. What is the top of the class today will be in another class in the future.

I received a modified part of a knife jig from Rick yesterday. It is a quality product, and I look forward to using it. Tormek will continue growing, with innovations both from Sweden and the forum.

We live in interesting times.

Ken

[cbwx34]

I have no doubt that with his experience, Stig has completely master the standard Tormek knife jig. I have no doubt that Steve Bottorff has completely mastered disciplined freehand sharpening after his many years as a sharpener. I have no doubt that comparable masters have produced the same kind of results using half a dozen other methods.

I also have no doubts that the Tormek knife jigs of five years from now will be different than today's jigs, as will much of the Tormek line. Tormek is innovative and continually evolving. What is the top of the class today will be in another class in the future.

I received a modified part of a knife jig from Rick yesterday. It is a quality product, and I look forward to using it. Tormek will continue growing, with innovations both from Sweden and the forum.

We live in interesting times.

Ken

I think if a company rep writes... "I have never felt that I need another solution"... there might be room for a little doubt.

But, on a positive note, I also received a test unit of Rick's modified Stop Collar, and am enjoying trying it out.  I'll post a review here in a few days, when I try it on a few more knives... but I don't foresee any issues.  Very nice job on the welds... everything lines up nicely... he does quality work.

[Stickan]

I think if a company rep writes... "I have never felt that I need another solution"... there might be room for a little doubt.

But, on a positive note, I also received a test unit of Rick's modified Stop Collar, and am enjoying trying it out.  I'll post a review here in a few days, when I try it on a few more knives... but I don't foresee any issues.  Very nice job on the welds... everything lines up nicely... he does quality work.
[/quote]

I see you point :-)
We always want to be the company who brings new jigs and solutions for the customers. The largest task is to make a jig that works as good as possible for a kind of tool instead of having more jigs in our system that would sell in a small amount.
This forum has been great for those who solved a problem and made their own jig or adaption of a jig.

Those who how actually met me in real life here on the Forum, I think and hope that I made the impression that we always are listening to new ideas. And that my interest in sharpening is way deeper than only being a company rep.
So when I write that I never felt that I needed another solution, that's the fact for me personally.

The stop collar do look very nice made and I hope that it will help you with the difficulties you have had with our jig.

Sincerely,
Stig

[Ken S]

I am one of the forum members who has had the pleasure of knowing Stig in real life. I live in Columbus, Ohio, which is located between Troy, Michigan, where Affinity Tool, the US Tormek importer is located, and near several major Tormek dealers. In an online interview, Stumpy Nubs asked Stig what he sharpens. Stig replied, "knives........and chisels". That is an honest, telling statement. Stig is a knife enthusiast, who just happens to work for Tormek. He is a friend whose day job just happens to be with Tormek. I always look forward to his next visit to Columbus or somewhere in Ohio.

I found an article on line. It was an old woodturning magazine column by a British writer. An earlier column about sharpening turning gouges caught the attention of Torgny Jansson. Torgny very generously sent the author a gouge jig and everything he would need to sharpen gouges with his Tormek. The jig was the state of the art 185. The patented design is so good that one major manufacturer paid Tormek royalties to use it instead of producing a jig of its own design.

Fast forward: Tormek redesigned this world class jig into the present 186, a major improvement in several ways. Tormek made the best better, substantially better.

In my "Tormek Museum" I have one of the older design truing tools. It was a gift from Rich Colvin. He had used it for many years with his SuperGrind. When Rich upgraded to the TT-50, he immediatly knew his old truing tool should be in a museum. Rich also repurposed his 185 to sharpen round wheel cutters after he upgraded from his long used 185 to a 186.

In 2006, Tormek switched to stainless steel shafts and wet side parts to eliminate a rust problem. (The clone community have not yet made that switch.) Then, in 2010, Tormek introduced the EZYlock shaft, another genuine improvement. I would expect the head of Tormek support to envision a number of future changes while skillfully using the state of the art Tormek equipment.

In the handbook, Torgny Jansson thanked the many Tormek users who have sumbitted suggestions over the years. I believe that tradition will and must continue.

Ken

[Jan]

Hi,
One solution with short blades is to mount the jig as close to the handle as possible and pivot the handle on the knife upwards while sharpening and not follow the curve on the blade.

Sincerely,
Stig

I have to agree with Stig. I am currently testing the usage of the Tormek knife jig for knife making purposes far beyond the standard Tormek environment as you can see from the attached picture. It seems to be very promising. 

The only problem I have is that I cannot flip the jig because of the protruding knobs. The primary bevel angle is 12° and the planed secondary bevel angle should be 18°. Blade thickness is 3.25 mm. The shaping is easy because the steel of the blade is not hardened, it has some 40-45 HRC only.

After raw shaping the blade has to be heat treated (heated, quenched and tempered) and then finished.

Jan

[RickKrung]

...snip...
The only problem I have is that I cannot flip the jig because of the protruding knobs.
...snip...

Jan,

Does the front knob interfere, or just the larger, taller, rear knob?  If only the latter, try using a set-screw that does not protrude much above the level of the jig.

Rick

[Jan]

Rick, the major collision was caused by the black rear knob. After replacing it by a suitable screw a minor collision, caused by the small front knob, occurred.

I have resigned to the flip function of the jig. An associated reason was the fact, that the blade thickness is too big for the Tormek knife jig.

Jan 

[cbwx34]

Hi,
One solution with short blades is to mount the jig as close to the handle as possible and pivot the handle on the knife upwards while sharpening and not follow the curve on the blade.

Sincerely,
Stig

I have to agree with Stig. I am currently testing the usage of the Tormek knife jig for knife making purposes far beyond the standard Tormek environment as you can see from the attached picture. It seems to be very promising. 

The only problem I have is that I cannot flip the jig because of the protruding knobs. The primary bevel angle is 12° and the planed secondary bevel angle should be 18°. Blade thickness is 3.25 mm. The shaping is easy because the steel of the blade is not hardened, it has some 40-45 HRC only.

After raw shaping the blade has to be heat treated (heated, quenched and tempered) and then finished.

Jan

Nice blade, but not as short as the blade in the original post (54mm).  Longer blades get easier. 

(Also, what happened to your tip)?

[Jan]

CBWX, you are correct, this blade is 95 mm long.

The tip will be OK. I am shaping the blade from scratch. The picture in the previous post has shown unfinished first side of a laser cut knife making blank.

Jan

[cbwx34]

CBWX, you are correct, this blade is 95 mm long.

The tip will be OK. I am shaping the blade from scratch. The picture in the previous post has shown unfinished first side of a laser cut knife making blank.

Jan

Ah, very cool.

Soon you'll be on "Forged in Fire".