DWC-200

[cbwx34]

I did a bit of sharpening with the DWF wheel set up on the T-4 yesterday.  I was pleasantly surprised by how fast it cut (vs. being setup on the T-2).  Not sure why, but performed better. (Used dry / edge leading / with a jig).  Can only imagine how quickly the DWC must be working... but for knives, I could live with the DWF being the only diamond stone I had, (and might actually wish for a DWE stone being made available in the 200mm size).

[Ken S]

Good post, CB. I need to take more vitamins; you are ahead of me again. 

Working more with the DWF-200 is on my to do list, with both the T2 and T4.

I hope that Tormek will someday complete the trilogy and add the DWE-200 to the lineup. Even better would be adding the side grit to these wheels.

We live in hope.

Ken

[cbwx34]

...
I hope that Tormek will someday complete the trilogy and add the DWE-200 to the lineup. Even better would be adding the side grit to these wheels.
...
Ken

A bit of a sidebar, but yeah, hopefully a full range of diamond stones will eventually make it's way to the T-4.  A lot can be done with a stone that doesn't change size.  I've often thought of various techniques and/or sharpening setups for knives that would work except for the stone getting smaller.

Just my limited use over the last couple of days with the diamond wheel on the T-4, has made me realize what a game changer this is in the knife sharpening world...  (even though I know there are some aftermarket stones available).

[Ken S]

CB,

At the risk of once again agreeing with you one more time. I agree that diamond wheels are game changers for knife sharpeners. I would that this does not seem limited to knives. Constant diameter is only one of the constants with diamonds. I find that the diamond wheels keep cutting. Conventional grinding wheels start cutting well, however, they do not continue cutting well unless refreshed with the stone grader.

I remember disgruntled posts from members sharpening planer blades with the SG and SB. I do not have any planer blades for practice, however, I believe the two diamond wheels would do a fine job. The DWC would remove the nicks; the DWF would sharpen the edges. The wheel diameter would remain constant throughout the process and with both (or, eventually three) wheels.

And, (as the infomercials say) there is more. I believe the new multi base will be as much of a game changer as the diamond wheels. We live in exciting times.

Ken

[cbwx34]

To complement the diamond wheel, I added some 1µ diamond spray I had to the leather honing wheel today... not so much to polish the bevel, but definitely improved the leather wheels ability to clean up and debur the edge on some wear resistance knives.

Wonder if the Tormek compound will be altered at some point?

[Ken S]

I am pleased to see this innovative spirit on the forum. Just as grinding wheel technology is quickly evolving, honing technology is also changing. I do not believe this will mean the end of PA-70. I think PA-70 will remain as a part of the honing arsenal, but supplemented by other compounds including diamonds on several grit sizes. We already have this technology from pioneers such as Ken Stewart.

When I was younger, high carbon steel tools were the order of the day, as were traditional oilstones and high speed dry grinders. I still have the oilstones I inherited from my father and both grandfathers. Essentially identical oilstones are still sold in tool stores. In fact, oilstones work better today than in the past because they can be easily flattened and their cutting surfaces refreshed by diamond flattening plates. They remain the sharpening method of choice for high carbon tools like specialty plane irons by some prestigious woodworkers. The niche remains strong, although waterstones, ceramic, and diamond stones now dominate the market.

Dry grinding remains popular for many applications. Most of us, myself included, still have a dry grinder and an assortment of bench stones. Mine get little use since I purchased my Tormek, although my collection of handfiles remains very useful.

PA-70 is my go to honing compound. While I don't claim that it is always the best choice, it is a very workable all around choice. Several years ago, I experimented with valve grinding compound. VGC does not leave as polished a surface as PA-70, however, it does cut more aggressively, which is useful for removing surface staining. It is a useful tool to have available. (I have a separate leather honing wheel for it.) For the record, I would use diamond compound today instead of VGC for specialty work.

The T4000, predecessor to the T2, was essentially an elongated SuperGrind made of stainless steel. It used the traditional SG-250 and leather honing wheel. I was surprised to see the T2 with two diamond wheels and the rubber tapered honing wheel. Diamond wheels are a major change for Tormek. I have a gut feeling that the T2's rubber honing wheel will be the harbinger of more changes in Tormek honing. I was delighted to see that both diamond wheels and the rubber honing wheel are entirely compatable with the T4. I am even more delighted to learn of the new 250mm series of diamond wheels with side diamonds. The new diamond wheels and multi base may prove as much of an advance as the universal support bar.

I do not see other honing options being far behind. They are already in use by pioneering forum members.

We live in interesting times.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Good point.  I probably shouldn't have said "alter" the Tormek compound... but perhaps a 2nd "diamond added" option.

I've noticed there are a number of sharpeners on YT, that don't even use the Tormek to sharpen, but will use the Tormek compound on a strop to finish the edge.

(Now, bring back the T-4000!)

[cbwx34]

While sharpening with the diamond wheel, I "missed" something that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but since I was paying more attention to how the diamond wheel was performing, I didn't pay it much attention.

Yesterday I was doing some sharpening with the regular wheel, and realized that what I was missing was the water flow, and how it makes a good indicator of how the knife is contacting the wheel.  A subtle but helpful little indicator.

I guess at some point I'm going to have to get some "Honrite Gold"... and use the diamond wheel with water.


Edit to add:   Has anyone ever tried adding baking soda to the water?  According to the interweb... it changes the pH of the water and prevents rusting.

[Ken S]

Interesting thought, CB. I hope we can look further into this.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

I see the honing wheel as a step into the past as it sounds like the original wheel. (stuff impregnated in the wheel during manufacture)
I certainly understand a couple reasons for going diamond.  The lack of needing water (and a tray for bacteria to grow in), the ease of use (fixed size/repeatable), the general commercial need for touch ups, not chip removal.
The size has pro's and con's.  While you may not be able to work as easily with as large a knife as its predecessor, the ease of storage/use and the normal knives used in a kitchen, make up for it.

[Ken S]

Interesting thoughts, SADW. You bring the perspective of actually being in the restaurant into the discussion. I would not have thought of bacteria in the water trough. I agree with you about the consistent diameter and the the general need for touch ups rather than damage repair.

I have mixed (and not totally informed) feelings about the rubber honing wheel. Until the three new diamond wheels were announced, I was convinced that the T4 was the ideal choice for many operations. I will be interested in following developments in Tormek honing. My gut feeling is that after the dust settles with diamond wheels, Tormek may turn the big guns toward honing (or knife jigs   )

For the record, I happen to think the T2 is well designed for its niche market, being used by restaurant personnel rather than by sharpeners.

Ken