Question about new Tormek T2

[cutit]

Hi,

First posting here

I am curious/interested in the new Tormek T2. I am strictly looking to sharpen kitchen knives at my own house. Just regular kitchen knives say 3 to 4 inches to 8 inches.

This will be for my own house, own kitchen, not in a restaurant. Since this is a single purpose tool how long will the diamond wheel last ? is it 100 uses more or less ? I am guessing since that is its only purpose that it was tested or there is some idea how many knives or how many times the diamond wheel can be used before need to be replaced ?
Thanks for the input.

[cbwx34]

Hi,

First posting here

I am curious/interested in the new Tormek T2. I am strictly looking to sharpen kitchen knives at my own house. Just regular kitchen knives say 3 to 4 inches to 8 inches.

This will be for my own house, own kitchen, not in a restaurant. Since this is a single purpose tool how long will the diamond wheel last ? is it 100 uses more or less ? I am guessing since that is its only purpose that it was tested or there is some idea how many knives or how many times the diamond wheel can be used before need to be replaced ?
Thanks for the input.

Welcome to the forum.

There's a bit of a review of the T2 here...  T2 Initial Review.  In particular, you might look at the posts I made about some of the various knife shapes, and whether or not yours will work well with the T-2.

I can't answer about wheel longevity... like you stated, hopefully Tormek has done some testing in this area, and will provide an answer.

I know it may not be what you're seeking, but consider taking a look at the T-4.  Much more versatile, and, unless you really know you won't get into sharpening... I've found over the years that many people who say, I just want to sharpen 'X' type knives... often want to sharpen more, once they get the bug.     And the T-4 really isn't hard to learn (unless you're a nut like me who likes to tinker).  It may seem that it would be harder to learn than the T-2... but it really isn't... and you'll end up with a much more versatile machine.  (I think people look at the big manual that comes with the standard Tormek and think it's complicated, but most is just related to the various jigs available.  Knife sharpening is only a couple of pages).

Anyway, my .02.  (If not the answer you're seeking, say so, and someone will be along to help you out.  I won't be offended.) 

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Cutit.

At the risk of agreeing with CB  ,I must say I think his advice is correct. The T2 and T4 share the same frame and most of the parts. The T2 is not designed primarily for knives; it is exclusively designed for knives. Both the T2 and the T4 will sharpen knives. Where you will see the difference is when you need to sharpen a pair of scissors. The T4 is a full fledged Tormek. The T2 is a one trick pony. Admittedly, it does that one trick very well, however, that is all it does.

For home use, the T4 is definitely more versatile. The new special edition bushcraft T4 is the best price I have seen since it was originally introduced. Plan on purchasing a TT-50 truing tool with it; you will need one. All grinding wheels must be retrued occasionally, including Tormek wheels. The T4 is a nice machine, ideal for home use. I have one and like it.

Ken

[cbwx34]

At the risk of agreeing with CB  ,I must say I think his advice is correct.

That's a keeper!!! 

[Ken S]

Glad you replies in the same lighthearted, positive manner as I intended! 

Ken

[cutit]

Hi,

Thank you very much for the reply. 
I did read the review on the T2. From what I gather I think I will have to skip the T2 for now. Again appreciated.

I have further questions. A little background first. I am just looking for "something" that can be sharpen a kitchen knife reasonably well. What I mean by that I have the Wusthof Classic kitchen knives. I live in US and typical Wusthof and Henckel type is what most people use. These are German type knives/steel. They do have a bolster so don't want to be using like a T2. I also have a MAC which is about 7.5 inches. This one was very sharp but got dull quickly.
I have over the years spent hundreds and hundreds of $ on all kinds of sharpening devices. Such as the ones that one has to pull. I probably have like 5 or 6 of these but after a few times they no longer work. I also had the Spyderco sharpening system and used that but it never sharpen anything. Ended up selling it.
I also had about a dozen King stones from like 200 to 2000 grit but that never worked also. The problem with these is that I keep sharpening with a guide or without and trying to sharpen the German knives.  After 10 to 15 minutes they never sharpen. No matter what I did I can never get the german steel on a japan waterstone. I kept the angle rotate watched bunch of videos on youtube but nothing worked. Kept the stones in water for a day and they became too soft. Then I tried like 10 minutes which was better. But still will not sharpen. I still have some king waterstone.
I have also used some other sand belt that did not work either.


So few years ago a bought a Tormek 2000. I think I paid $300 or so. I also bought for it the water thing I paid $28 for it. I have then used it on two Wusthof knives free hand  but it took too much material and the blade now has wave like pattern. It did sharpen somewhat but was still not right. After that Tormek has been sitting in the garage for the past 3 years or so.

I recently helped a friend cut some meat and all my Wusthof and Henckel, which btw were expensive are dull. Cant really cut with them. So I went back to my Tormek 2000.
To my surprise when I bought it used it did not come with the US105. Also I would need the jig for the knife sharpening. So that would be about $80 or so for both.
That would make it a almost $400 investment. The worry I have is that the wheel is 200 or so grit. Not sure how sharp that would make a knife. I am not looking for perfection just to be able to have a sharp knife for cooking, nothing fancy. If it last a month or two and have to do it again I am ok with that.
Now I know there is some grading wheel that will make it up to 1000 or so but I am not going to that length.
What I am asking is if with just the standard Tormek 2000 wheel and with the US105 that I need to get and also the knife jig that I need to get will I get a reasonably sharp knife that can cut meat, vegetables, etc for say a month or two ? I do not care about the finish or scratched or any of that. I just need it to cut meat and vegetables reasonably well, thats all. 
Any input appreciated.

[Ken S]

Cutit,

You need the Tormek you already have; a TT-50 truing tool (a big improvement in my opinion over the older model....a must have item); a stone grader; a US-105; and a regular knife jig. I can never remember the Swedish letters. It is the 45 jig. And you need some quiet time to learn the process. A couple reasonable good knives will make life more pleasant for your Henckels. Please read the first topic [Tips and Techniques).

The Tormek really is a three stage machine. The standard SG stone works fine for knives. For decades it was the only Tormek grinding  wheel, and is still as versatile as ever. The first step is grinding the bevel with the grinding wheel graded coarse. Use the jig and slowly sharpen until you raise a bevel on the entire blade.

Unless your knife is very dull, you can begin with the stone graded fine. For your learning period, start with a coarse stone. Following the tormek.com video with the stone grader, use it for around a minute initially. This is longer than you will eventually do it, however, it will insure that you really have the stone full fine. Use the jig, just like before.

I suggest you begin using the leather honing wheel with the jig and support bar. Be sure to reset the Anglemaster for the leather honing wheel diameter.

Don't be in a hurry. Repeat these steps several times until you feel comfortable with the process. I have the philosophy that anything an expert can do with the Tormek, I can do. (maybe not immediately, but eventually. Do not purchase any other sharpeners. Experience is the key. If you eventually change your mind and want to try something else, so be it. However, do so from a position of skill.

Keep is posted and enjoy the journey..
ken

[cbwx34]

Hi,

Thank you very much for the reply. 
I did read the review on the T2. From what I gather I think I will have to skip the T2 for now. Again appreciated.

I have further questions. A little background first. I am just looking for "something" that can be sharpen a kitchen knife reasonably well. What I mean by that I have the Wusthof Classic kitchen knives. I live in US and typical Wusthof and Henckel type is what most people use. These are German type knives/steel. They do have a bolster so don't want to be using like a T2. I also have a MAC which is about 7.5 inches. This one was very sharp but got dull quickly.
I have over the years spent hundreds and hundreds of $ on all kinds of sharpening devices. Such as the ones that one has to pull. I probably have like 5 or 6 of these but after a few times they no longer work. I also had the Spyderco sharpening system and used that but it never sharpen anything. Ended up selling it.
I also had about a dozen King stones from like 200 to 2000 grit but that never worked also. The problem with these is that I keep sharpening with a guide or without and trying to sharpen the German knives.  After 10 to 15 minutes they never sharpen. No matter what I did I can never get the german steel on a japan waterstone. I kept the angle rotate watched bunch of videos on youtube but nothing worked. Kept the stones in water for a day and they became too soft. Then I tried like 10 minutes which was better. But still will not sharpen. I still have some king waterstone.
I have also used some other sand belt that did not work either.


So few years ago a bought a Tormek 2000. I think I paid $300 or so. I also bought for it the water thing I paid $28 for it. I have then used it on two Wusthof knives free hand  but it took too much material and the blade now has wave like pattern. It did sharpen somewhat but was still not right. After that Tormek has been sitting in the garage for the past 3 years or so.

I recently helped a friend cut some meat and all my Wusthof and Henckel, which btw were expensive are dull. Cant really cut with them. So I went back to my Tormek 2000.
To my surprise when I bought it used it did not come with the US105. Also I would need the jig for the knife sharpening. So that would be about $80 or so for both.
That would make it a almost $400 investment. The worry I have is that the wheel is 200 or so grit. Not sure how sharp that would make a knife. I am not looking for perfection just to be able to have a sharp knife for cooking, nothing fancy. If it last a month or two and have to do it again I am ok with that.
Now I know there is some grading wheel that will make it up to 1000 or so but I am not going to that length.
What I am asking is if with just the standard Tormek 2000 wheel and with the US105 that I need to get and also the knife jig that I need to get will I get a reasonably sharp knife that can cut meat, vegetables, etc for say a month or two ? I do not care about the finish or scratched or any of that. I just need it to cut meat and vegetables reasonably well, thats all. 
Any input appreciated.

Your post speaks volumes.     (But I'll stick to the Tormek stuff). 

First... don't be discouraged that you couldn't sharpen freehand on the Tormek.  I know guys who've sharpened for decades that can't do that.

I would definitely get a Universal Support Bar, and the knife jig (SVM-45).  Sharpening with a jig will give you the results you seek.

The grit of the wheel is no big deal at this point.  The stone grader grades the stone either at 220g or 1000g.  But without the stone grader it'll fall into a "natural state" somewhere in between.  As you gain experience, you'll see the need for the grader and can decide then.  I differ with Ken here... IF your stone is in decent shape... you can skip the Truing Tool for now also.  Again, over time, you can pick one up.

I would add one more thing, if you don't already have one (or something similar).  Get a fine ceramic rod.  You'll use it to finish the edge, instead of the honing wheel.

Oh yeah... get a black Sharpie (or similar) marker, if you don't have one.   

If you decide to go this route... let me know when you have this setup... and soon your knives will be the talk of the town for how sharp they are.   

[Ken S]

Things are returning to normal. CB and I agree most of the time. 

What you do with the truing tool and stone grader is up to you. These are two essential Tormek skills; you will need to master them at some point. Eventually is probably OK, but don't wait too long.

Regarding ceramic rods: CB and I think differently. I have two ceramic rods, and use them regularly. A ceramic rod places a toothier edge on a knife than the leather honing wheel. You may prefer that edge, especially for kitchen cutlery. Where I disagree is presuming the leather honing wheel is guilty without due process. I respect someone who chooses not to use the leather honing wheel who has first mastered it. I am not so keen on those who prefer other methods who have not bothered to become fluent with it before condemning it. I do not mean to imply anything negative about CB or his skills. My philosophy is to master the fundamentals before branching out.

CB and I are in complete agreement about the importance of the black marker.

Ken

[RichColvin]

get a black Sharpie

I agree with CB on everything else he said, but not about this :  I prefer a red Sharpie.  I find it easier to see when I have the grind angle right.

master the fundamentals before branching out

This is a great statement that applies to so much in life.  Another way of stating it is,

Master one task before trying a different one

It is only by mastering something that one can truly judge its merit and value to you.  This can't be stated strongly enough.  (Does that make it the tao of sharpening ?)

Kind regards,
Rich

[cbwx34]

Things are returning to normal. CB and I agree most of the time. 

What you do with the truing tool and stone grader is up to you. These are two essential Tormek skills; you will need to master them at some point. Eventually is probably OK, but don't wait too long.

Regarding ceramic rods: CB and I think differently. I have two ceramic rods, and use them regularly. A ceramic rod places a toothier edge on a knife than the leather honing wheel. You may prefer that edge, especially for kitchen cutlery. Where I disagree is presuming the leather honing wheel is guilty without due process. I respect someone who chooses not to use the leather honing wheel who has first mastered it. I am not so keen on those who prefer other methods who have not bothered to become fluent with it before condemning it. I do not mean to imply anything negative about CB or his skills. My philosophy is to master the fundamentals before branching out.

CB and I are in complete agreement about the importance of the black marker.

Ken

Ah well... we had a good run. 

I will say you have a unique view on things.  But, you're right we differ.  I don't see the need to "master" the honing wheel first.  They're two different approaches... and mastering the honing wheel doesn't necessarily translate to utilizing the ceramic.  And you hit the nail on the head as to why... with the ceramic, you'll get an edge that will be more appropriate for the task at hand.  The goal here is to get a person "up and running" in the kitchen.  (Read cutit's 2nd post... been on quite the journey).  There may or may not be a time for the leather wheel... it has its purpose, but isn't always necessary... and I didn't "condemn" it.  But, at this stage, I think there's a better path.  But, glad you brought it up... if for no other reason than to highlight the reason and the differences.   Cutit (or anyone else) can decide what'll work best.

I don't disagree about the truing tool and stone grader... but like I said, IF the wheel is in decent shape, it can be skipped in the first round of "add-ons".

My view is... let's get a person who has spent YEARS trying to get knives sharp, on a path that will overcome the past difficulties, and knives that will perform.  (Hopefully anyway...)

get a black Sharpie

I agree with CB on everything else he said, but not about this :  I prefer a red Sharpie.  I find it easier to see when I have the grind angle right.

Kind regards,
Rich

No problem there... whatever works!

[Elden]

"IF the wheel is in decent shape" is large, hopeful thinking. Not that there is anything wrong with such a wish, with the history log mentioned that possibility sounds pretty slim.
   In this day of electronic predation, most people are very reluctant to reveal where they are located. I understand their view somewhat. Personally I find it disappointing. My profile gives a general description of my location. I wish others did the same. Lack of a listed name bugs me as well. That probably comes from my ham radio background. Name and location exchange were common courtesy.
   What brings this rampage from my tree stump? In a situation like this, it may be possible that a member on the forum might be in close proximity to cutit who would be willing to help him true and dress his wheel. While not a permanent solution, it could help him initially insure that his wheel is good to go. Yes cb, I am assuming that the wheel very well may need to be trued. 
   I understand about the outlay of money being a problem. Actually we are bumping into the need of a very cautious approach to buying a used Tormek. One can very quickly come up to the price of a new unit by the time the missing accessories are purchased.

[Ken S]

CB,

Yes, we had a good run, and the run is not over.    This forum would be very boring and limited if everyone agreed with me. If you examine my writings, you will quickly discover two things:
1) My sharpening background is home woodworking. I have been sharpening chisels for many years. Knife sharpening really began when I met Steve. I am not one to miss the opportunity to learn from a master.
2) I am not a natural talent with sharpening. I am much more comfortable with a solid understanding of the basics. I am not opposed to creative change; in fact, I welcome it. I just feel better with a solid foundation.

Each of us must pursue his own path. My focus on the truing tool comes from experiencing my sharpening not going right for some reason. This has happened several times. In all cases, my grinding wheel looked fine. The truing tool told a different tale. I like to eliminate as many problematic variables as I can. With just a little study and practice, the truing operation is quickly and easily done. The variable of an untrue wheel is eliminated. Yes, it doesn't necessarily need to be a first round purchase. However, don't wait as long as I did.

I agree, let's get frustrated sharpeners up and running and lower the frustration. For the record, I am glad we have some "knife people." on the forum instead of just chiselers.

Elden, you suggestion is most useful. Rich Colvin and I both live in the Columbus, Ohio area. We get together occasionally and compare notes. It is enjoyable. I hope Rich benefits as much from these meetings as I do. As Elden correctly notes, some skills are easier to learn from another sharpener. If any of you are just getting started and do not have a truing tool or are reluctant to try using it, if you live in the Columbus area, send me a PM.

Ken

[RichColvin]

Elden & Ken,

You triggered a thought.   It's great to have someone local to talk to about ideas, questions, and even complaints.  With wood turning and carving, there are clubs where you can do this, and get ideas & presentations about the craft.  My local wood turning club even does "mentoring" sessions where one member volunteers to teach a small group about something that fits well there.

I'm not sure if there is enough interest in having a club devoted to sharpening, even if it met once every 3-4 months.  But, there is probably value in presenting about sharpening at woodworking centers (e.g., Woodcraft, etc). 

I've heard repeatedly on the Fine Woodworking podcast, Shop Talk Live (http://www.finewoodworking.com/blog/shop-talk-live), that the value of sharp tools must be experienced to know how much easier (& safer) it is.

So how do we as devotees get this message out ?

Rich

[RichColvin]

Cutit,

If you're near Columbus, Ohio, I'd be glad to help. 

Kind regards,
Rich