Whetstone vs Tormek

[cbwx34]

Jan,

You make a very good point. As most of you know, I am really a chisel person. I became more of a knife person when I met Steve Bottorff. Steve has become a friend as well as a mentor. I spend as much time now with knives as with woodworking tools. My advice to the forum would be never pass up an opportunity to learn from a master. Such an opportunity is a rare gift.

Ken

Umm... isn't Steve's main method a "multi-bevel" sharpening? 

[SharpenADullWitt]

+1 on Greppers answer, with the addition of people believe the hand stones may provide better edges, in part, due to some training with them, and practice with them.
My knife experience with the Tormek, proves to me that with experience/practice, I have improved with the Tormek, enough so I do get better edges, in less time, then the edges of tools I have done with a whetstone.
But if you compared my knives, to Steve's, I bet he would win, as he has even more experience/feel for it, and he could probably beat me as well, using a whetstone.

[brettgrant99]

I generally subscribe to the Tormek philosophy that secondary bevels are not necessary with the Tormek. Secondary or micro bevels are a labor saving short cut for manual sharpening. They work well with dry grinding be shifting the final sharpening to the bench stone, thus keeping the hot dry grindstone away from the thinnest part of the blade. With the Tormek, there is no danger of overheating. the motor of the Tormek does the heavy labor. There is no nee for a micro bevel.

Ken

Ken, you are correct what concerns Tormek philosophy for secondary bevels on wood chisels and plane irons!

In my understanding the situation with knife edges is somewhat different. Recently I have carefully studied one new Swedish outdoor knife with scandi grind. The included angle of the scandi (primary) grind was 22° while the microbevel angle was 36°. The length of the scandi grind was 6 mm while the length of the microbevel was only 0.1 mm.

If the edge needs only minor maintenance, it may be sufficient to sharpen/hone the microbevel only. When the edge is worn and blunt we have to grind the primary bevel first and restore the 22° angle and then sharpen the microbevel with an angle of 36°.

The microbevel makes the edge stronger, less vulnerable and guarantees better edge retention.

Jan

Is it possible to do a micro edge like this consistently on the Tormek?  I have every confidence that I could set the angle, but I don't think that I could do a 0.1 mm bevel.  I don't think that the two bevels would be equal.  At least I wouldn't be able to do that

[cbwx34]

Is it possible to do a micro edge like this consistently on the Tormek?  I have every confidence that I could set the angle, but I don't think that I could do a 0.1 mm bevel.  I don't think that the two bevels would be equal.  At least I wouldn't be able to do that

My .02... I don't think the goal is to specifically grind a .1mm bevel... just the fact that it takes very little work to set it... one or two light passes per side at a higher angle, i.e., doing as little metal removal as possible.  (36° seems a bit high though, but that would contribute to the bevel being pretty small).

[Jan]

Is it possible to do a micro edge like this consistently on the Tormek?  I have every confidence that I could set the angle, but I don't think that I could do a 0.1 mm bevel.  I don't think that the two bevels would be equal.  At least I wouldn't be able to do that

My .02... I don't think the goal is to specifically grind a .1mm bevel... just the fact that it takes very little work to set it... one or two light passes per side at a higher angle, i.e., doing as little metal removal as possible.  (36° seems a bit high though, but that would contribute to the bevel being pretty small).

Good question Brett! The measurements described above were done on a new knife. Attached is microscopic image of the edge which shows that the length of the microbevel is really some 0.1 mm.

I did not sharpen the knife yet, I only honed the microbevel on the leather honing wheel. The honing has not changed the size of the microbevel.

CB, I fully agree with you. All what is needed is to do the light honing passes symmetrically on both sides.

Jan

[Ken S]

Interesting topic. I might add that I have become a fan of Morakniv. I am not a knife collector, however, I have three Mora knives. One says Tormek on the handle. The other two (sizes one and two) have simple wooden handles. They are very well made and use 01 high carbon steel. Very traditional, functional and surprisingly reasonably priced, quality products.

Ken

[Jan]

Ken, I share your opinion. 

Jan

[cbwx34]

Ken, I ran across this while researching another question....

Interesting, Steve. Would you elaborate about the first and second sharpenings?

...

I have been kicking around an idea in the back of my head. I want to try using the SG-200 standard wheel of my T4 followed by the T7 with the SJ-250 Japanese wheel. I believe the radius difference in the wheels would give a similar primary and secondary bevel effect, the finer wheel being set to only polish the every edge, not the entire bevel. Thoughts?

Ken

At one time, you entertained the idea.... 

[RichColvin]

I grind the primary bevel on an SB or SG stone, & put a microbevel on using an SJ stone.  This seems to work well on my kitchen knives as I can touch up the sharpening quickly.

Rich

[Ken S]

Rich,

There is an old Irish saying, "There are many roads to Dublin." 

Ken