Question about new Tormek T2

[cbwx34]

IMO... knife sharpening is a bit more tolerant to things not being perfectly "true"... as opposed to some of the other tools sharpened on the Tormek, which require everything be pretty "dialed in".  Not to say you won't get better results if it's perfect... but should still be able to get a decent edge without it.  (To be fair... you do need to pay attention to making sure you're properly contacting the edge if the wheel isn't true... especially going across the wheel... so maybe I should include this fact.  I just assume that this is done).   

[Elden]

   Thank you Rich and Ken. While I am not good Tormek instructor material (I relate to chainsaw chains a little more ), I do have a few of the basic Tormek pieces and would share my basic knowledge. If someone close to the Coffeyville / Independence in SE Kansas area needs some help, feel free to private mail me. Sometimes the old mind wants to do more than the old body will allow.
   CB I understand your point somewhat. I restored an old pedal grinder to working condition for a neighbor. The way the wheel was mounted and trued (or lack thereof) was very interesting. It would be interesting to compare a tool sharpened on it versus the same tool sharpened on a trued Tormek using the same sharpening method.

[cutit]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. Work has been very busy I had not had time to reply.
Thanks for the input.

I did find some pics and some notes from 2013 I believe so I bought the Tormek 2000 like 4 years ago.
Forward to today and I looked to buy WM200 and SP650 and US105 and SVM45. I priced all of them on the bay and they all came to $144. So I called the place, they had all in stock. I asked if I can have a discount since I am buying 4 different things. They said no way Tormek is not letting them discount anything. Well at this point that will make it even a more costly investment. I dont know if I should be going this route. I looked at current models and it looks like warranty is 7 years. Not sure the 2000 model that I have how long the warranty was when it was sold. I do not even have a receipt if needed. Is the 2000 model reliable ? the motor in it ?

Not sure what to do at this point. I had for many years dealt with companies which are strict on parts, warranty, 3rd  and so on. I do not like it at all is their way or the highway.

What I am getting from this is that correct or good knife sharpening is expensive. I mean factory specs, correct angle, some kind of cooling of the blade, etc.
I am not referring to someone that gets they Dremel out or some other gimmick on youtube that people try to sharpen knives.
I am talking sharpen a knife like it should be. Unfortunately the waterstone did not work for me. That would have been least expensive.

I wonder how many millions of knives are thrown in the garbage every year, how many millions of $ are spent every year on gimmick sharpening devices, how many millions of knives are destroyed every year due to incorrect sharpening.

I have a general frustration with knife sharpening because one has to invest a lot of time and skill and $ into sharpening a simple tool that has been around for tens of thousands of years. Unfortunately there is nothing inexpensive, simple, easy to use, correct angle, cooling, does not destroy the blade, etc, that will work 100% of the time. If it is I would like to know.

How was knife sharpening done for tens of thousands of years before electricity ?

Maybe I got this all wrong, but I have tried different ways and always end up in the same place. Knife not sharp and spent too much on something that did not work for me.

Any ideas and input appreciated.
Btw I am in Atlanta, GA.

[cbwx34]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. Work has been very busy I had not had time to reply.
Thanks for the input.

I did find some pics and some notes from 2013 I believe so I bought the Tormek 2000 like 4 years ago.
Forward to today and I looked to buy WM200 and SP650 and US105 and SVM45. I priced all of them on the bay and they all came to $144. So I called the place, they had all in stock. I asked if I can have a discount since I am buying 4 different things. They said no way Tormek is not letting them discount anything. Well at this point that will make it even a more costly investment. I dont know if I should be going this route. I looked at current models and it looks like warranty is 7 years. Not sure the 2000 model that I have how long the warranty was when it was sold. I do not even have a receipt if needed. Is the 2000 model reliable ? the motor in it ?

Not sure what to do at this point. I had for many years dealt with companies which are strict on parts, warranty, 3rd  and so on. I do not like it at all is their way or the highway.

What I am getting from this is that correct or good knife sharpening is expensive. I mean factory specs, correct angle, some kind of cooling of the blade, etc.
I am not referring to someone that gets they Dremel out or some other gimmick on youtube that people try to sharpen knives.
I am talking sharpen a knife like it should be. Unfortunately the waterstone did not work for me. That would have been least expensive.

I wonder how many millions of knives are thrown in the garbage every year, how many millions of $ are spent every year on gimmick sharpening devices, how many millions of knives are destroyed every year due to incorrect sharpening.

I have a general frustration with knife sharpening because one has to invest a lot of time and skill and $ into sharpening a simple tool that has been around for tens of thousands of years. Unfortunately there is nothing inexpensive, simple, easy to use, correct angle, cooling, does not destroy the blade, etc, that will work 100% of the time. If it is I would like to know.

How was knife sharpening done for tens of thousands of years before electricity ?

Maybe I got this all wrong, but I have tried different ways and always end up in the same place. Knife not sharp and spent too much on something that did not work for me.

Any ideas and input appreciated.
Btw I am in Atlanta, GA.

cutit...

Maybe an email to Tormek would address the warranty issues?  I can tell you that I have owned a 2000 for over a decade (since 2004 least), and have never had an issue with it.  It's gone from being used constantly, to sitting in storage for a couple of years, back to being used, etc.  This year was the first year I did any real maintenance to it at all, and that was just lubing the drive shaft.  Of course, yours could die tomorrow, but if you look at YouTube... a lot of "old" machines still pop up in recent videos... and mine has never given me a problem.

I'll repeat what I said before... I think having the angle guide equipment would solve your issue... IF you decide to keep the Tormek.  (But I also know it may not be for everyone... but we're in Tormek's world here...).

I will say, don't get too caught up in what you read about angles, factory specs, etc.  There are simpler paths.  For example, one sharpener I know sharpens just about every knife at 21°... and he's won (informal) cutting competitions with it.... and has run a pretty successful business based on it.  Everything beyond the basics is like adding parts to a car/mc/etc... you may start with one that'll get you around, but then add to it as your needs/wants/knowledge/(money) grows.   

Anyway, I'm trying not to write a book...    ... and certainly not trying to talk you into keeping your Tormek and buying more 'stuff'.    That's up to you. 

One other thing... if your knives are in really bad shape from the various sharpeners over the years... might be worth having them professionally sharpened to fix any damage, reprofile issues, etc.

[Ken S]

Cutit,

My honest gut feeling for your needs would be the T4 Bushmaster Edition at $425 US. I am not implyimg anything negative about yout T2000. Lots of T2000 models have been in service since or near to 2000. Motor problems are rare. Almost anything else can be replaced at a reasonable cost. However, in addition to the ironclad seven year warranty, the T4 incorporates many improvements. These include the stainless steel EZYlock shaft; the machined zinc top, also added later to the T8; the patented Tormek rubberlike material for the rubber drive wheel; the US-103 Microadjust support bar ( identical to the US-105, but 10mm shorter for the 40mm wide grinding wheel;a WM-200 Anglemaster; an SP650 stone grader; and an SVM-45 knife jig. Plus a Morakniv. Eventually you would want a TT-50 truing tool.

I know a professional chef who is pleased with his T4. The T4 was not an option when I purchased my T7. Knowing what I do now, I would probably have opted for the T4, if it was available. Incidentally, ignore the thirty minute motor warning. Tormek fixed that problem.

What's not to like?

Ken

[Ken S]

PS.....

If your problem is angle adjustment, print out Dutchman's grinding angle booklet from this forum (a free download); print out my kenjig instructions; and make a kenjig. You can make a fully serviceable out of cardboard in five minutes. Setup will be consistent, repeatable, and very fast. You will never need an Anglemaster for knives.

Ken

[RichColvin]

Everything beyond the basics is like adding parts to a car/mc/etc... you may start with one that'll get you around, but then add to it as your needs/wants/knowledge/(money) grows.   

Anyway, I'm trying not to write a book...

I read that book ... Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

[RichColvin]

I am in Atlanta, GA.

I went to school there :  graduated from Georgia Tech in '87.  Lived just past the big chicken at Kennesaw Mtn.

[Crusty]

I have a general frustration with knife sharpening because one has to invest a lot of time and skill and $ into sharpening a simple tool that has been around for tens of thousands of years. Unfortunately there is nothing inexpensive, simple, easy to use, correct angle, cooling, does not destroy the blade, etc, that will work 100% of the time. If it is I would like to know.

There is no simpler or easier system for consistent bevels etc than tormek
Learning how to sharpen knives or any other tool is based on acquiring skills to do so. Unfortunately you cannot just go out and buy a box of skills, most people become skilful by practicing and doing, some learn faster than others while a few will struggle with the task, it is what makes us all so very different. I suggest you could learn by doing things slowly, one step at a time, like karate kid, "wax on, wax off", do this many times and you will acquire skills.
Also watch some how to's by some of the people on here and get to it. 

[bobl]

Welcome to the forum, Cutit.

At the risk of agreeing with CB  ,I must say I think his advice is correct. The T2 and T4 share the same frame and most of the parts. The T2 is not designed primarily for knives; it is exclusively designed for knives. Both the T2 and the T4 will sharpen knives. Where you will see the difference is when you need to sharpen a pair of scissors. The T4 is a full fledged Tormek. The T2 is a one trick pony. Admittedly, it does that one trick very well, however, that is all it does.

For home use, the T4 is definitely more versatile. The new special edition bushcraft T4 is the best price I have seen since it was originally introduced. Plan on purchasing a TT-50 truing tool with it; you will need one. All grinding wheels must be retrued occasionally, including Tormek wheels. The T4 is a nice machine, ideal for home use. I have one and like it.

Ken

[bobl]

At the risk of agreeing with CB  ,I must say I think his advice is correct.

That's a keeper!!! 

I agree with Ken. I have the new T2- it does an amazing edge, especially on globals, sushi knives etc.
However!! I have also got the T7 ( same as the T4, just the bigger brother ) and I use the black stone ( SB250 )  Along with the stone grader ( SP650 ) it will give the same end result. An amazing super sharp edge that will shave the hairs off of your arm. as does the T2.

The T4 and the T7 can do so much more. personally, go for the T4 and T7. Believe me, I have thrown a good few thousand pounds at different machines for knife grinding over the years from many different companies.  My GO TO machine, always comes back to my trusty T7.
( or the T4 if you are not in the commercial side) It does the same job.

I have learned the hard way and the expensive way. I tried to do it on my own.
Not recommended .

Here is my advice to any new people wanting to start a sharpening business---or just as a hobby.

For a sharpening  business.---

1] go to the recommended training  school as suggested on this forum. (Robin in Bath for UK )

2] do what he tells you---it is right ---- he knows his stuff.

I have spent over 4 times more than what the training school costs--- trying to do it on my own and save money!!!

THE INTERMEDIATE SOLUTION 

1] Buy the DVD as recommended by Ken and many others on this forum.
2] buy the Tormek T4 or T7 ---or any new ones they might produce. ( subject to our forum )

FINALY
1] Learn from your mistakes.
2] Move on and better your skill set.
3] Be the best you can be.

I Have Never Had A Better Machine Than The TORMEK.
Best of luck
Bobl
Bob The Knife Grinder.
Merry Xmas

[Ken S]

Bob,

One of my favorite quotations in Benjamin Franklin's, " Experience keeps a dear school, but a fool will learn in none other. " In truth, we are not fools if we learn from our mistakes. "We" is intentional, to include me. In our defense, I believe that Tormek could and should produce a much more in depth training program. Every school in Sweden has a Tormek for its teaching program. I can not believe that Tormek would allow the school instructors to be completely ignorant of how to use the school's Tormek. In Tormek's defense, I realize that they are a very small company. I do not expect Tormek to support instructor led training throughout the world. What I do expect is up to date in depth training films from Tormek.

I will give you an example. My Henckel knives have bolsters, which needed to be ground down. I also has a hollow spot in the curve of my slicing knife. I could find nothing it Tormek's training material for these situations. I knew a belt grinder could easiky handle them, so I bought a belt grinder.

With more experience, I realized that even the T2 could grind bolsters. I ground down one of my Henckel bolsters with the T 2. It worked fine, even though nothing in Tormek's instructions or videos indicated this.

It's late,

Ken

[cutit]

Thanks for all the reply and advice. Appreciated. I shopped around and I went ahead and purchased the wm200 and sp650 and us105 and the svm45. Parts will get here next year. I have also let the 2000 run and runs great. Now if I just can find the water trough that I bought years ago. Not sure where I put it.
I watched some youtube videos and it does not look too complicated. Thanks again for all the advice. Happy Holidays to all.

Chris

[Ken S]

Chris,

Go for it! Of course, the logical choice probably is to go new, however, man does not live by logic alone. I enjoy using my grandfather's 1891 vintage Stanley jack plane and my .."newer" 1909 vintage Bedrock planes (I am the second owner.).

Enjoy your revitalized SuperGrind! And, keep us posted.

Ken

[RichColvin]

Chris,

I added those to my Tormek 2000, & it is running greatly.  I've no plans to replace it. Maybe supplement it with a 2nd one ...

Rich