Plane iron - secondary bevel with SE-77?

[Ken S]

Larry,

One of the things I really appreciate about Tormek is their philosophy of non obsolencense. Every jig and accessory for the T8 will work just as well on your SuperGrind. It reminds me of my Nikon digital camera. The camera (D610) is only two years old, but works flawlessly with my third of a century old 105mm f4 micro Nikor lens. (In fact, it works better with the digital camera because of being able to increase the magnification on the screen to check focus and the built in electronic rangefinder.)

I spend a considerable amount of time studying the Tormek. I like to keep current with the many innovations, both from Sweden and from users. I also study earlier sources with the Tormek. I believe there is much to be learned from Torgny Jansson's original idea and the innovative technique he developed. I guess I appreciate both Proverbs and Bonhoeffer.

I enjoy researching things for the forum. I have purchased ten grinding wheels for my Tormeks, including three CBN wheels and two Norton 3X wheels. They all do good niche work, however, my go to wheel has always been the SG. I am strictly a hobby sharpener. Most of my sharpening is older woodworking tools and garden variety kitchen knives. The SG is designed for those steels. It should work well with A2, also.

If you can remove your grinding wheel from the shaft easily, I highly suggest you do so. Hopefully you have cleaned and regreased the two bushings from time to time. The older steel shafts often rusted, especially when the grinding wheel was left ad infinitum in a full water trough (never a good idea). Annual disassembly and regreasing, along with good housing should keep your steel shaft functioning. I use ordinary white lithium grease for the bushings. All shafts since 2006 have been stainless steel.

As you have seen with your TT-50 truing tool and microadjust, jigs and accessories have advanced over the years. The older jigs and accessories still work as well as when new; the new designs just work better, sometimes much better.

Make sure you register your Tormek on the website. You are out of the warranty period, however, registration will give you access to some fine videos by Alan Holtham and the latest online edition of the handbook. Like the latest du jur editions of the Bible, the basic content has not changed, although the newer jigs are explained. I have found it convenient to download the handbook on my ipad, although my comfy preference remains the old hardbound edition which came with my T7 in 2009.

Enjoy your new L-N 62. It was a top contender for many years in my acquisition days. Please post your thoughts about using it.

Ken

[LDBecker]

Hi, Ken,

I'm a Canon shooter myself - 35 years or so - now using a 5DmkIII and a decent collection of L-series primes and zooms, along with a Canon Cinema C100 mk II for video work that also uses interchangeable lenses - but I get the idea.

I haven't spent sufficient time studying the Tormek - I got it because I was trying to get serious about turning and actually did develop some proficiency at it - and sharpening the tools to do it. But I have to say I have never lubed anything on it, and am concerned that I may have ruined the beast. It seems ok, but I wonder what kind of drama getting the wheel off and replacing it with the new EZlock shaft would introduce in my life. My inclination is to leave it and continue to work as is.

I haven't unpacked the TT-50 yet, but since my Lie-Nielsen LA #62 plane and its extra two irons arrived today, I have reason to dress the wheel again. My first impression of the LN #62: I am not worthy... it is a piece of art and craftsmanship, and am looking forward to making it a part of my woodworking routine.

The literature that came enclosed with it suggests "up to a 5 degree secondary bevel" for this plane's irons. That puts my mind at ease. I see it's the same thing that's on their website.

I did register my Tormek earlier this week so I could download the new manual - I wanted to see the material on the new jigs. My Tormek is pre-serial number, so it took me a second or two to sort out how to register it.

I have to do quite a bit at work in the early part of this week - school start-up, computer troubleshooting (part of my role here), playing guitar at the school's chapel service, and the usual staff and council meetings, counselling, and so on that goes with the position - I plan to work on the irons later this week. I want to, as the material suggests, give the new blade some slight honing - on the leather wheel, I imagine?

Anyway, I'll post back on this topic how it goes.

Thanks!

Larry

[cbwx34]

But I have to say I have never lubed anything on it, and am concerned that I may have ruined the beast. It seems ok, but I wonder what kind of drama getting the wheel off and replacing it with the new EZlock shaft would introduce in my life. My inclination is to leave it and continue to work as is.

I can tell you from my own experience... I didn't pay much attention to my first Tormek... used it off and on for over a decade with basically no maintenance.  Only this year, I cleaned and lubed it... and it turned out fine.  So, unless it was abused somehow, I'd say odds are in your favor... they seem pretty durable.  (If nothing else, you could attempt to remove the wheel... that'll give you an indication of the shape it's in).

[Ken S]

Larry and CB,

I see good ideas in each of your thoughts. Larry, I agree, do no harm. However, I would be tempted to try removing the grindstone with minimal force. Ideally, it might come off. If it does not, I would place your Tormek with the grindstone level and on top. Apply just a little penetrating oil. Add a few drops each day for a week and then try again. If this doesn't let you remove the grinding wheel, back off.

Regarding L-N and the secondary bevel: I have only good things to say about L-N. However, do keep in mind their recommended sharpening technique, well demonstrated in their fine you tubes. They recommend hand sharpening with water stones or abrasive paper stuck on granite. This works well, but would be labor intensive without secondary bevels. With a Tormek, the machine does the work, and secondary bevels offer no labor advantage.I don't think the wood being planed cares if the bevel angle planing it is primary or secondary.

In the L-N sharpening book is a photo of an eclipse jig with two pins added. These were custom added by them to work with the Tormek USB. I emailed them about this. Their response was that since the Tormek only went through 4000 grit, they opted to use water stones, ending with 8000 grit.

I have no definitive opinion on this. I will say that I believe a well sharpened, honed, and polished edge done with a Tormek seems adequate to me. (Incidentally, the honing compound breaks down; the 6000 grit designation is just an educated guess.) For the most exacting work, where one might want to polish the edge with an 8000 grit stone, the steel is being polished. Small scratches are being removed; the heavy lifting has already been done.

I would start with just a single bevel. I would not interject a secondary bevel until after you are very comfortable with the Tormek. At that point, you have a well developed point of reference.

Do keep us post, and don't be shy about questions.......Enjoy the 62!

Ken

[LDBecker]

Larry and CB,

I see good ideas in each of your thoughts. Larry, I agree, do no harm. However, I would be tempted to try removing the grindstone with minimal force. Ideally, it might come off. If it does not, I would place your Tormek with the grindstone level and on top. Apply just a little penetrating oil. Add a few drops each day for a week and then try again. If this doesn't let you remove the grinding wheel, back off.

Regarding L-N and the secondary bevel: I have only good things to say about L-N. However, do keep in mind their recommended sharpening technique, well demonstrated in their fine you tubes. They recommend hand sharpening with water stones or abrasive paper stuck on granite. This works well, but would be labor intensive without secondary bevels. With a Tormek, the machine does the work, and secondary bevels offer no labor advantage.I don't think the wood being planed cares if the bevel angle planing it is primary or secondary.

In the L-N sharpening book is a photo of an eclipse jig with two pins added. These were custom added by them to work with the Tormek USB. I emailed them about this. Their response was that since the Tormek only went through 4000 grit, they opted to use water stones, ending with 8000 grit.

I have no definitive opinion on this. I will say that I believe a well sharpened, honed, and polished edge done with a Tormek seems adequate to me. (Incidentally, the honing compound breaks down; the 6000 grit designation is just an educated guess.) For the most exacting work, where one might want to polish the edge with an 8000 grit stone, the steel is being polished. Small scratches are being removed; the heavy lifting has already been done.

I would start with just a single bevel. I would not interject a secondary bevel until after you are very comfortable with the Tormek. At that point, you have a well developed point of reference.

Do keep us post, and don't be shy about questions.......Enjoy the 62!

Ken

That all makes sense, Ken. Thanks for the advice.

I got Christopher Schwarz's Handplane Essentials book via UPS today - All set to learn about "Coarse, Medium and Fine." Thanks for pushing me to get it. I've watched some of his videos and interviews on YouTube, and have a bit of a sense for what he's about - very much looking forward to the read. I breezed through the Wood Whisperer's book on Hybrid woodworking in a couple of hours on my iPad. Schwarz's book is a quite a bit heaver read (literally and figuratively). I wish he used color pics, though. Hand planes are beautiful things...

Larry

[Ken S]

Larry,

Enjoy the Chris Schwarz book. It is very pleasant with a mug of coffee.

Ken

[LDBecker]

Sorry to be gone for a while. Busy... I did get the new jig for refreshing the stone and it did a perfect job- it actually looks new. I've sharpened all my chisels, but not my plan irons. I bought an extra blade for my LN 62 and started to grind it to a different angle than stock, but it looks kind of funky. Hoping I didn't wreck it. I am going to try Rob Cosman's sharpening approach for plane irons- a 1k diamond plate and 16k Shapton glass stone. I will likely use my Tormek mostly for lathe tools.

Thanks for all your help!

Enjoyed the Handplaning book...

Larry Becker

[Ken S]

Larry,

I'm glad you are enjoying the handplane book. Chris Schwarz combines a hands on woodworker with a research scholar. I find his work refreshing.

Changing the bevel on today's premium plane blades may be one of those "forty days and firty nights" projects.

I enjoyed the new documentary on Martin Luther. What an interesting person!

Ken

[LDBecker]

The blade looked odd with a 38deg hollow ground forming on it. I'll likely go ahead and finish it when I get back to it. I also invested in a shooting board from Tico Vogt (rather than try to make my own) to go along with the LN 62. Before it was built, I decided to have it modified for the Veritas Shooting plane. It is amazing for this use.

I purchased a site license for the new Luther video to show to my congregation for a Luther movie night - we do this every once in a while. The Luther movie with Joseph Fiennes and Sir Peterson Ustinov is one that I have used a few times for that, and every year with my confirmation class.

I have seen the new one - it's more of a docu-drama, but good. I know some of the experts who appeared in it.

Regards,

Larry

[Ken S]

Larry,

Shooting planes like the Veritas are, in my opinion, one of the outstanding new developments in woodworking tools. Now, if we can just get the humidity to remain constant! (Actually, with improved central heating and air conditioning, wood movement is less  problemstic.)

I'm a sucker for good historical programs. I am not surprised that you know many of the film's experts.

Ken

ps I will check out the other film.