New owner of used 2000, couple of questions

[Kavik]

Hi all,
  I've been coveting these Tormeks for years, but never could justify the cost. I've already invested well over grand over the years in sharpening supplies for my various hobbies, but being spread out over a decade or so makes that easier to swallow, I could never justify that cost all in one shot on a single machine and it's jigs!
A little about the hobbies I have that require sharpening: I have a decent collection of knives to maintain, from pocket to survival to some fairly expensive Japanese kitchen knives; I've been collecting and using antique straight razors for years now (obviously not something the Tormek will help with. They require dead flat stones and they don't touch anything below 1k, and finish around 12-15k); Woodworking tools include HSS turning tools, chisels, bench planes, draw knives, axes, adzes, and carving gouges; leather working tools include various knives and punches.
For all these things i currently use: water stones (synthetics, slates, coticules), diamond plates, ceramic rods, a Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker, the WorkSharp Ken Onion edition mini belt sander thing,  a grinder with a fryable wheel and a grinder with paper disks, and granite slabs with wet/dry sandpapers and micro-abrasive sheets.
This isn't to say I'm an expert or anything, far from it...just that I have a bit of experience with many different methods on some varying types of tools

But then I came across an older SuperGrind 2000 at an estate sale a couple weeks back that was, too put it mildly, a heck of a bargain 
Here's what was included:
-it's the version of the 2000 that has the tapered front and the dual mounts for the support bar
-the standard sg-250 wheel and leather strop wheel (more on this below)
-handbook edition 7.1
-the angle master
-3 knife jigs (more on this below)
-scissor jig
-2 square edge jigs (one is the SE-76. The other i assume is older, the sticker is missing, but it looks... Simpler, less refined)
-tool rest svd-110
-half a tube of somewhat dried out honing compound

For all of this together i ended up paying $105

Overall it seems to be in good shape, but required a bit of tuning up right off the batt.
The surface of the wheel was a bit rough and the wheel itself was out of round. I picked up the truing tool and the stone grader....by the time i got everything trued up the wheel is at 235mm. Not bad.
The leather honing wheel had a gouge in it, so that got sanded down a bit with the tool running, then re-oiled. Works alright now, but eventually I plan to replace the existing leather with a new piece (no offense intended but it boggles my mind, some of the topics I've read here in regards to that leather wheel. The number of people who say it's cheap enough to replace the whole thing, and that it's a good value for a new one? Cheapest I've seen is around $70...vs about a dollar's worth of leather and glue. And don't get me started on the idea of cleaning the wheel in a dishwasher....know how hardened leather forms are made? Hot water is the simplest method )

Anywho, with all those saving I've already also purchased the following:
-SVS38 short tool jig (or so I thought, needs to be returned to amazon, they gave me the old svs32 model )
-svs59 multi jig
-svd186 turning tool jig
-tts100 turning tool setter
-la120 profiled leather honing wheel
-along with a foam filled case to store all the jigs

Things still on my list:
I'll eventually want to replace the shaft with the stainless one
And get the mount for using these tools at my other grinder (it took me hours reprofiling a 1"x1/4" hss skew on the tormek wheel last week), which will also give me the newer tool rest with the micro adjust feature


I know this has turned into a whole book here lol but if you've read this far, I have just a couple questions:

As I mentioned, this came with 3 knife jigs...which is a bit confusing. I can only find reference to 2 different sizes anywhere on tormek's site.
What I've got here is the svm140, then something that looks to be an older version of the svm45 (functions and measurements are the same, just no model number stamped on it).
The third looks just like the svm140, but is only 100mm wide.
So the question is, was this an old version of the long knife jig? Or is this something different?

Can anyone suggest a method for sharpening a round knife / head knife?
It's a thin flat bladed knife with a semi circular edge, about 4-5" in diameter.
Here's an example on amazon
I don't have one here to experiment with yet, but looking to get one soon and just thinking ahead.  I don't expect it to be long enough to use the tool rest without the handle hitting the rest

I'm sure I'll have more questions over time, but i think I've rambled on enough for now

[cbwx34]

As I mentioned, this came with 3 knife jigs...which is a bit confusing. I can only find reference to 2 different sizes anywhere on tormek's site.
What I've got here is the svm140, then something that looks to be an older version of the svm45 (functions and measurements are the same, just no model number stamped on it).
The third looks just like the svm140, but is only 100mm wide.
So the question is, was this an old version of the long knife jig? Or is this something different?

Can anyone suggest a method for sharpening a round knife / head knife?
It's a thin flat bladed knife with a semi circular edge, about 4-5" in diameter.
Here's an example on amazon
I don't have one here to experiment with yet, but looking to get one soon and just thinking ahead.  I don't expect it to be long enough to use the tool rest without the handle hitting the rest

Congrats on your purchase.  Sounds like a great deal.

This is the only part I can answer... the 100mm was an older version replaced by the 140mm "long knife jig".

I'll be interested if someone has an answer for the knife you linked to.  I have something similar... the only way I could do it on the Tormek was freehand... very carefully.

BTW, I think if you register on the main Tormek website, you can download an updated version of the manual.  Tons of info in the forum though... I'm finding new 'gems' every day.

Enjoy!

[Kavik]

Thanks for the response! With all these outdated jigs I'm also curious about the age of the machine... Can anyone take a guess at that based on the clues above?

And thanks for the tip, but i already registered and got the new manual while waiting for the "approval process" to join the forum 

Oh, and so far I've managed to get my set of 7 Chisels ALMOST perfectly square and sharp, plus 2 hand planes, 2 skew chisels (this was the worst of the bunch in terms of frustration and errors), 2 spindle gouges, 1 roughing gouge, and a small set of scissors.
Learning a lot on what I've done so far, and high hopes for improving with practice!

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum,  Kavik. You certainly got a deal on your Tormek. (If many of us had seen it first, it would have been gone!   )

If you go onto the main Tormek website, click on about Tormek; click on news archiv. That will bring up a history of when various models and accessories were introduced. Your Tormek predated the T7 and the LA 120 honing component. I would guess your Tormek to be circa 2000-2005.

Many of us, myself included, have collected many other sharpening parts over the years. In my case, my dry grinder and bench stones have essentially laid unused since I purchased my Tormek. The notable exception is my collection of handfiles. I use them for many things.

Do register your Tormek online (tormek.com). You are out of warranty, however, you can watch several good instructional videos (newer models, but same technology) and, you can download the latest version of the handbook.

The 100 mm knife jig was the predecessor of the 140mm. I have one, and use it frequently as part of my five jig knife set up.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[Kavik]

Haha yeah, the guy running the estate sale told me i was stealing it at that price, but the former owner's wife set the prices, not him.  I knew it was a deal, but didn't know how much of one till I got home and started researching.
Thanks for the welcome Ken, and the info. Already registered, and have watched a few videos so far, but have more to watch still. I'll check out those news links though.  I know it's likely this machine will outlast me anyway, regardless of it's current age, I just like to learn about the tools I get

Oh yes! Files, have a bunch of those too lol
Honestly, I think I'll stick to those for the axes and adzes. My adzes all have the bevels on the inside of the curves anyway, and I'm not sure i like the idea of a hollow grind on a hatchet/axe anyway
As for the dry grinder.... Really not ready  to give that up just yet, not after how long this first HSS skew took me. Even fresh off the diamond truing tool it cut soooo slow and the rough side of the stone grader barely helped every few minutes. And these are M2 steel, which I believe isn't even the toughest form of hss out there

Maybe once i get all the tools really dialed in to profiles i like, to where they just need touchups, maybe that'll change for me too
I live in an apartment, my "shop" is an enclosed porch.... So it'd be nice to be able to get that bit of space back anyway, if i can (the tormek will live in my office, for temperature concerns)

[Herman Trivilino]

I don't expect it to be long enough to use the tool rest without the handle hitting the rest

Try the base of your scissors jig. You may have to attach a platform to the top of it to get it to work, but it will indeed be better than the tool rest jig because its surface is much closer to the Universal Support.

My machine was purchased in 2002 and it sounds as though it's the same as yours.

By the way, your older leather honing wheel is made of plastic. Examine it for cracks before you spend any time trying to replace the leather. The new ones are made of metal. If you do replace the leather please let us know how it goes. I don't recall anyone ever describing an attempt at that. Getting the old leather off may be the hard part.

Another thing you may want to check is the nylon bearings for the main shaft. They tend to wear over time. If you upgrade to the stainless shaft, the kit does come with a pair of new bearings.

[Kavik]

Thanks Hernan! The idea for the scissor jig base sounds like a great idea. Will definitely give that a shot once I get the knife

Just checked, no signs of cracks    If it works out I'll make a thread about it when I get around to doing that, but it's probably going to be a while before it's needed.
My thoughts so far are this: someone mentioned trying to clean theirs of too much oil with hot water and the glue to separate a bit, so i figure I'll start with a hot water soak and careful peeling... Then it's just a matter of careful measuring and cutting, then i can't imagine regular contact cement wouldn't be enough to hold the new leather down. In theory it all sounds rather simple.... But we all know how often things go according to theory lol

Looking ahead, i don't think the contoured ones would be that hard to recreate either.  A large scrap of 8oz veg tanned leather should be the perfect thickness. Shaping can be started with skivers and find tuned by scraping  with a sharp razor, or with a sanding drum on a dremel,  while the wheel is turning.
A couple buck's worth of leather and some time vs ~$40 for the replacement piece.... Certainly worth a try at least

Can the bearings be checked without removing the wheel? Or is a visual inspection needed? I don't feel any side to side movement
I really am expecting this nut to be a bear to remove, will most likely purchase the new shaft before even attempting that, so i only have to go through it once

[Ken S]

The topic of nut removal resurfaces occasionally. The keyword to success is patience (combined with time and penetrating oil). Frankly, if the nut does not come off with only a reasonable effort, I would abandon the effort. Sometimes a broken grinding wheel can be collateral damage in heroic efforts. It should be noted that these problems are usually caused by not dumping and cleaning the water trough after use and/or not disassembling and regreasing the bearings annually (if ever). Tormek became aware of this issue and since 2006, all shafts have been stainless steel.

I occasionally apply some (not much or often) leather cleaner on my honing wheel. No hot water for me! You can always spot the you tube newby reviews by the pristine leather honing wheel. It will quickly turn black. That means it is doing its job. I would recommend just using it. You might or might not be successful in changing the leather. In any case, be prepared to purchase a replacement honing wheel if you remove the leather. Part of the cost of a replacement honing wheel is that it is a low sales volume replacement part.

Enjoy your Tormek. Your enjoyment will be enhanced if you take the time to master some basic functions, like truing the wheel, using the stone grader, and learning how to adjust your technique to get square grinds. Your mileage results may be different. These skills evolved slowly for me. The effort has proven worthwhile.

Keep posting.

Ken

[Kavik]

I've been diligent about dumping the water after each use, but it's obvious that the previous owner wasn't. In addition to the rusty nut, the wheel also has a ring of rust along the inside/left surface. My original plan was to not even try it until disk the road when I'm ready to replace the wheel, in case it does break...until you guys started talking about needing to check bearings and keep them greased.
I'll start patiently and carefully attempting to disassemble it occasionally and see what happens, but won't push it

In regards to the honing wheel; yeah, i'm not worried about the color, mine is pitch black again after resurfacing it. I've used leather for stropping plenty in the past. I have about a dozen hanging strops for my straight razors, different types of leather from various makers, and a few I've made myself. Those don't use compounds, just a bit of neatsfoot oil to keep the leather conditioned.
But for my kitchen knives and chisels i have paddle strops with various compounds on them. Buffing compounds and jeweler's rouges...no matter what color they start out, they all end up black in the end lol
No, the reason I'm planning to replace it just has to do with the damage mentioned earlier. There was a nasty gouge in the leather when I got it...I don't think it was caused by it being turned the wrong direction, looked more like something got pushed up against it and dug in... But, at any rate, ending it back down to almost smooth has left me with pretty thin leather...and i can still feel it a bit during use.
I've accepted the fact that I may screw it up and have to replace it, but I'm still going to try. I don't believe volume of sales should effect the price of an item unless it's the only item you sell....but either way, pricing issues aside, I'm just not a fan of the whole disposable mentality we have today.  Too many things are made to just be replaced when a little effort could be made to repair them to like new condition. 
It's why a large portion of my hand tools are much older than me, i get more enjoyment out of bringing a tool back to life than from buying something shiny and new

I think at this point I'm fairly confident with the truing tool and the stone grader already, between the infidel flattening of the stone, the nightmare i had with the one hss skew, and the complete reprofiling of 2 spindle gouges, i got quite a bit of practice with them pretty early on lol
Will continue working towards those perfectly square edges
All in all though, i'm very happy to say that I'm finding the learning curve to be fairly quick on this, compared to learning to grind some of these things freehand on other grinders. 
The jigs may be a bit fiddly, but they really are a godsend... Especially that gouge jig. Sooo much easier than freehanding a fingernail grind.  I'm loving the consistent, smooth results off that thing!!

[Herman Trivilino]

Kavik, I wouldn't clean the leather in hot water, either. I scrape the crud off with a putty knife. This is also the remedy when the leather has been over-oiled.

If you see no slop in the shaft, the bearings are probably not worn. But they do need to be lubricated. You can remove the main shaft while it's still attached to the grindstone. You may have to chisel away some rusted crud from around the shaft where it passes through the bearing on the wet (grindstone) side of the machine.

The main function of the leather wheel is removal of the burr, in my opinion. Polishing the bevel is its secondary purpose as far as I'm concerned.

I second what Ken said about experience with the stone grader. You need to apply a lot of force for a lot of time. Sometimes the grindstone gets clogged with swarf and you have to apply the edge of the stone grader. After a while the edges will get rounded over, and the fine side will develop a concave shape. These are part of the break-in, as far as I'm concerned, and make it work better.

Watch the YouTube videos made by Jeff Farris. He is the Tormek guru, former owner of SharpToolsUSA, and former moderator of this forum. You will find many of his informative posts here on this forum. This forum's search feature seems rather lame until you put it in advanced mode.

[grepper]

Herman, looks like your avatar is another victim of Photobucket. 

[Kavik]

Thanks Hernan, I'll look Jeff up on YouTube 
(edit: oh yeah, i'd got a bunch of his videos bookmarked already, i just forgot his name lol)

And, yeah... R.I.P. To your avatar lol

[Ken S]

Kavik,

Your post gave me a good laugh. Your struggle with the skew and spindle gouge reshaping and resulting fluency with the truing tool was exactly the way (struggle) I had becoming fluent with the truing tool. It was frustrating (very frustrating!), but has proved to be a useful learning experience.

I have concluded that the Tormek is an excellent tool for resharpening and a slow (but workable for the very patient) tool for reshaping. I use a different path than the recommended Tormek BGM-100 and dry grinder. The inexpensive way is to modify an eight inch Norton 3X grinding wheel, either the 46 or 80 grit version. This is not ideal, however, it grinds quickly. I consider it a cost effective alternative for occasional use. It preserves the Tormek wet grind, cool, dust and spark free controlled work environment.

My preferred method is to use my Tormek wet or dry with a D-Way CBN grinding wheel. Either the 80 or 180 grit works very well. With the 12 mm reducing bushing, these wheels are "plug and play" with the Tormek. I also have a D-Way eight inch 180 grit CBN wheel which works on the T7/8 and works very well on its intended Tormek, the T4.

CBN wheels do not glaze. During my continuous five minute tests, both the Norton and the CBN wheels cut throughout the tests.  I recommend using Honerite Gold with the water to prevent rust of the steel wheel and bushing. The CBN wheels run cool wet or dry.

Reshaping a turning gouge took just a couple minutes. For me, that is fast enough not to be frustrating and slow enough to be very controlled.

I have not tried it, however, I am convinced that Tormek plus CBN is the ideal method for sharpening planer blades.

Keep learning and posting.

Ken

[Kavik]

Ken,
  A nice CBN wheel would be ideal, and if i didn't already have the grinder and the Norton wheel that's the route I'd take.
  But being that I do already have all that, the BGM-100 is going to make more sense for me. With the added benefit that it will gain me a second universal support, one with the micro adjust feature that I don't have currently.

Reshaping the gouge on the tormek wheel wasn't nearly as hard as the skew, and didn't take me long... Just left me having to do a lot of truing when I was done.  It's gonna take a bit more practice combining the motion of rotating the jig while at the same time keeping the tool moving across the surface to keep from wearing grooves

[Ken S]

Kavik,

Your thinking is quite logical. In your case you already have the dry grinder, and the kit would give you a support with microadjust. I find the microadjust essential with truing and useful for many applications.

I highly recommend the Tormek Turning Information Box. It combines a book written by Torgny Jansson, inventor of the Tormek (literally the "Tor" in Tormek) with a DVD by Jeff Farris. The information is quite solid and practical.

Ken