SE-77 and bench planes

[Ken S]

I sometimes feel that much of the written copy about the SE-77 is written by non woodworkers, or at least woodworkers who do not use bench planes.

Being able to micro adjust the jig to tweak edge squareness with chisels is indeed a nice feature. However, I would not give it top billing. Careful set up, checking and a true grinding stone should solve the squareness issue.

Having  one of the tightening screws slide seems more important for squareness with narrower tools.

In my opinion, where the new SE-77 jig really shines is with bench planes (often called hand planes). Being able to accurately and repeatably grind different cambers on plane blades (also called irons) is what really places the SE-77 at the head of the class.

Camber is a slight rounding arc of the edge (convex). Properly ground and set, the sides of the edge disappear into the plane, thus avoiding "plane tracks". The middle of the arc is set for the desired thickness of the shaving. With the final smoothing plane, this would be around .001" or .039mm. For jointing, making an edge or face flat, the arc is usually .006" or .240mm. For the initial rough planing, the arc is considerably thicker.

The SE-77 allow precise setting of the arc. It also allow tweaking for soft or hard wood.

I think the SE-77 is a superb jig for plane blades. It is also the best jig going for chisels.

Ken

[WolfY]

Being focused on knife sharpening to 99% I have very little experience and knowledge of the use of the SE-77 and the other woodworker's jigs.
Is there any good VDO that shows and explains all the benefits and how to get the maximum of the SE-77?

[Ken S]

WolfY,

Unfortunately, I have not found a really good video on the SE-77. Tormek has not made either a product video or an Alan Holtham video. I believe this may be because the department doing this is focused on preparing the new website. While I look forward to seeing the new website, the lack of video support for the SE-77 is regrettable.

I did find a Highland Hardware video on sharpening chisels which mentions the SE-77. I have included the link, although, in my opinion, it is incomplete and not outstanding. Correction: I found another Highland Hardware video from the David Charlesworth video. The HH camber video does give an introduction to using camber with the SE-77, however it is limited to the smoothing plane. This is an incomplete picture. Here is the link:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FCV1EkboiGo

Alan Holtham has done a video on the SVD-186 gouge jig, introduced shortly before the SE-77. Hopefully he will also do a video on the SE-77 soon.

In my opinion, Tormek's most advanced combination of a jig and a set up tool is the SVD-186 gouge jig and the TTS-100 set up tool. This combination is quick, accurate, simple and very versatile. It also has very good video support. I think the turners have received the best of the Tormek lineup. I believe the flat woodworkers and knife sharpeners have done well, but are still catching up with the turners.

The SE-77 is a big step forward in closing that gap. It continues the progress begun by its predecessor, the SE-76 in precise chisel sharpening. It adds cambering for plane blades, something long overdue. Tormek should take the lead with an in depth video explaining both how to fully use the jig and explaining the differences in cambering. The jig is outstanding. It needs video support. It also needs a set up tool on the same level as the TTS-100. The Anglemaster is adequate, but completely outclassed by the TTS-100. I actually use the TTS-100 to set my chisels and planes. It gives consistent distance between the support bar and the grinding wheel, blade protrusion, and automatic compensation for wheel wear. The TTS-100 could easily be modified to be as outstanding with square edge tools (and knives) as it is with turning tools.

2016 brought us the outstanding SE-77. I hope 2017 will bring the video support and set up tool this fine jig (and its users) deserve.

Ken

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eavazeeF8tA

[Dakotapix]

Here's a video by David Charlesworth.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfd-xzOF5sc
His main focus is with the clambering feature of the SE-77 but I believe he might touch on some other areas too. It's been a while since I watched it. 13 minutes.

Being focused on knife sharpening to 99% I have very little experience and knowledge of the use of the SE-77 and the other woodworker's jigs.
Is there any good VDO that shows and explains all the benefits and how to get the maximum of the SE-77?

[Ken S]

Thank you, Dakotapix. I had a senior moment and forgot that video. I recommend it.

Ken

[turbettr]

I'm new to Tormek and viewed the above mentioned videos in regard to putting a camber on plane irons.  The question I have is why there is only a single reference line for the center of the jig?  If both the front and back of the jig top were marked with multiple reference lines similar to the Veritas honing jig, it would be a simple matter to center any size plane iron.  As it is, it appears you have to mark center of the plane iron and then line it up with the single line on the jig.  Am I missing something?

[Ken S]

Ray,

Welcome to the forum. No, you are not missing anything; you have noticed a problem with the SE-77. Where the centering line is located would be a perfect place for a centering millimeter scale. This can be done using a separate rule, but, that seems primitive. In my opinion, the next version of the square edge jig should incorporate a more useful centering scale.

The following is strictly my opinion, with no insider knowledge. There have always been some issues with getting the grinding square with chisels. The possible causes of this are varied. The grinding wheel needs to be accurately trued with the TT-50. The chisel needs to be accurately inserted in the jig. The sides of the chisel itself need to be parallel.

The SE-76 added a square registration fence. In theory, this should have solved the problem. In truth, the Tormek is quite capable of oroducing outstandingly sharp chisels, however, some skill and mindful care is necessary. Here we get into the realm of the black marker, a small square (which must actually be square), and varying finger pressure. This is not as complicated as it sounds.

When Tormek introduced and marketed the SE-77, the cambering feature seemed second place to being able to square chisels. I disagree with this. I think the controlled cambering feature is outstanding, and long overdue. As a woodworker, I would purchase the SE-77 just for the cambering. This cambering feature needs a centering scale to be truly convenient. Yes, we could mark our own jigs, however, we should not have to do this.

Ken

[turbettr]

Ken -

I used the Wolverine adapter to rough out some old plane blades today on my 80 grit CBN wheel and the jig was spot on.  However, my diamond wheel on the other side was slightly out of square and I can see where the SE-77 will help.  Perhaps instead of (or in addition to) reference lines Tomek could come up with a jig that incorporates the design of the Robert Larson 800-1800 honing guide that automatically centers the blade.  Self centering with the SE-77 adjustment knobs would be perfect.

Roy

[Ken S]

Roy,

I had to google Robert Larson honing guide. Mine is the ancestor, the Eclipse jig, formerly made in Great Britain. There are many of the design now; the patent must have expired. I can't imagine Tormek following the pack, even though the idea is a good one. The present Cadillac of this design is made by Lie-Nielsen.

What you might do is cut off the bottom of the Larson style jig and attach it to a SE-77. This is one of those times when I wish I had a home machinist shop and the skill to use it.

Yes, your idea would be quite a jig!

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

While the innovations help address the issue, I think it is the nature of the Tormek that to get square ends the operator must grind evenly. As Ken states, the grindstone must be true, the tool must be properly inserted in the jig. These are necessary conditions, but they are not sufficient.

[turbettr]

Herman -

You make a good point in regard to inserting the blade into the jig properly. Prior to the introduction of lateral adjusters on hand planes, users used to gently tap the blade on one side or the other to get it aligned.  Can I assume this will also work with the old style SVH-60 straight edge jig?

Roy

[Herman Trivilino]

Roy, you can try that. I don't know if it will work.

[Ken S]

Roy,

Using a light plane hammer should work fine. I say "should" because I have never actually done it. By the time I bought my T7 in 2009, the SVH-60 was almost extinct. I have actually purchased two of them, the first one being new. There is a very long ago forum topic where Ionut and I discussed his problem fitting a large traditional mortise chisel in the SE-76. During the posts, Ionut found that his old SVH-60 could handle a thicker chisel. Ionut helped me locate one of the last new SVH-60s from Big Bear Tool in Canada. (On the very remote chance that I ever acquire a "pig sticker" mortise chisel, I can now sharpen it with a jig. For the more practical/logical,, the platform jig or just freehand with the support bar will do the job.)

Deneb Puchalski demonstrates a simple but effective wooden gage block arrangement on the Lie-Nielsen videos. A similar device is shown on the Tormek turning video. These are remeniscent to the days of plane hammers, and work as well today as in the past.

I am hoping Tormek will produce an in depth video on chisel and plane blade sharpening. A well done video could address the squareness issue. The issue is certainly not excludively Tormek related. Some video expertise from Sweden would benefit many users. (Stanley recognized the problem early on and introduced the lateral adjustment lever around 1890.)    Another plane blade issue I have not seen addressed by Sweden is the new, substantially thicker premium plane blades. Most of my blades are century old Stanleys. Well sharpened and tuned, they work fine for my use. If my shoptime increased, I would consider the new, thicker blades and cap irons. Torgny Jansson wrote the handbook before these blades became available. The handbook should be updated to include them. (Attn: Sweden, I think a really nice touch would be using different fonts for Torgny's writing and contemporary additions. With today's copy paste editing, this is not difficult, and would preserve the integrity of the founder's original thoughts.)

Try your plane hammer. Also try simple gage blocks. Alan Holtham uses the word "fiddly" meaning requiring adjusting, fiddling. I favor techniques which lessing the fiddling time, allowing more energy to be devoted to sharpening. My personal technique for chisels and plane blades is to use the TTS-100. I use it the same way it works so very well for turning tools. I set the Distance between the support bar and the grinding wheel with one of the two holes on the TTS-100, usually the shorter Distance. I used to use the longer distance hole for cambering before the SE-77. I placed a piece of blank label tape in one of the Projection slots. With the Distance set, I adjusted the Projection of the chisel/plane blade with the Anglemaster. (a bit fiddly this way, but only done once) I mark the Projection with a fine blacker line on the tape. My original "temporary" tape from years ago is still working fine. Although it looks somewhat third grade science project, it is accurate, fast, and repeatable.

Check your grinding early with the black marker. Use the small hammer early, before you have much to regrind. Keep your small square close by. Keep posting.

Ken

[turbettr]

Ken -

Thanks for the reply.  Turns out that adjusting the plane in the jig wouldn't solve my problem because it was caused by the Wolverine arm not being coplanar with the side of the diamond wheel.  This in turn caused the Tormek jig to not be parallel to the grinding surface.  I removed one of Wolverine mounting screws and pivoted the arm very slightly to fix the problem.

Roy   

[Ken S]

Roy,

Clever troubleshooting! I picked up a Oneway adaptor for my Tormek a while back. It look like it has the potential to be more versatile than the BGM-100. I actually plan to use it with my Tormek rather than with a dry grinder. (I like to tinker....)

Ken