What's your workflow for multiple chisels? New to Tormek.

[LCAC]

Hi Tormek experts!

I've just put through an order for a Tormek T8. I should have it in a few days. It's for my school so we can stop sending all our chisels, plane blades etc to a sharpener at the end of the school year for a new edge. I'm keen to get in the habit of touching things up often to avoid the cost of professional sharpening and so my kids can have the best edge possible when they need it. I'm pretty excited to see what it can do in person.

I've watched heaps of videos and I think I get the idea but they always seem to take one chisel through the process of sharpening.  I suppose my concern right now is having to setup the angle for each chisel. I'm hoping there are some simple ways to set it up once and put all the chisels through it. Is it as simple as leaving the jig on the rail and pushing each chisel down to meet the stone to set the correct height in the jig?

Do you have any tips and techniques to take a couple of dozen chisels and plane blades through the sharpening process?

Thanks in advance!

[SharpenADullWitt]

First thoughts, it will get easier once you have done it the first time or two.
Next, are all the chisels the same style and brand, as that could have some effect on how they fit the jig.  (also different mortise chisel from bench chisel)
Third, I could see you setting up with a couple pieces of scrap, a jig that you set the blades protrusion through, so they are the same settings (similar to the turners TTS-100), as well as some scrap wood blocks, so the bar is the same distance from the stone.

[Jan]

LCAC, welcome to the forum! 
Your investment in T8 has perfect justification, congrats to your wise decision. 

Setting the edge angle for chisels is easy and the same setting can be used for dozens of chisels or plane blades. I assume you are familiar with the chapter Square edge jig SE-77 of the handbook.

1)   You have to decide about the chisel protrusion P, which will be suitable for the whole set of your chisels. The usual chisel protrusion P is from the interval 50 to 75 mm.

2)   When the protrusion is set, than the edge angle is defined by the height of the Universal support and grindstone radius. The edge angle is set using the AngleMaster WM-200.

3)   It is easy to automatize the protrusion setting for another chisel by using e.g. suitable wooden block. This can also check the squarness of the montage into the jig.

Good luck!
Jan

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum. Lewis.

Yes, we can help you. First of all, assuming you have a number of chisels, avoid the temptation to begin with the narrow chisels. That is a recipe for disaster. Begin with the 3/4" chisel in the best condition. Work slowly. The careful time you spend with this chisel will be well repaid.

My personal method is slightly different than the customary Tormek method. If we standardize the length of the tool protrusion from the SE-77, and the distance between the universal support remain constant, you can sharpen fifty chisels and they will be identical.

I must close, temporarily. Half day at school for my grandchildren, and I am the taxi. More soon.

Ken

[Ken S]

Lewis,

I hope you have the opportunity to spend some quiet time with your Tormek before being deluged with students and a deadline for sharp tools.

I suggest you start by learning how to true your grinding wheel. Do this before even thinking of allowing any tools to get near your Tormek. Watch the TT-50 video on tormek.com a couple times. Fill your water trough to the line and let the grinding wheel run for a couple minutes. Add water as needed to keep the water to the fill line and water running over the grinding wheel.

Once this is done, mount the TT-50 on the support. Set the support bar height so that the diamond cluster just clears the grinding wheel. Lower it until it almost touches the grinding wheel. Turn on your Tormek and make a pass across the wheel. You will probably touch only intermittently, which is good. Lower the support bar about half a number and make another pass. You should hear and feel a little more contact with the grinding wheel. Continue these very light cuts until you are lightly cutting across the entire length and circumference of the grinding wheel. At that point, your wheel is trued.

By making very light cuts, you are learning this skill safely and in control. Truing your grinding wheel is a fundamental skill. Learn it first. Learn it slowly. Learn it well and thoroughly. Use it often. With twenty four edges to maintain, you will probably want to true the wheel either after of before each session.

Having a true wheel eliminates many gremlins.

Do not be concerned about wearing out your precious grinding wheel. Like brake shoes, it is consumable. What is precious is your students.

I must stop to taxi my grandchildren to the orthodontist. When I continue, I will modifythis post and add to it.

Ken

[RobinW]

Hi Lewis

May I suggest that you troll through the forum looking at the trials and tribulations of the learning curves which some have us endured with regard to sharpening chisel and plane blades. It's the small differences to note particularly with regard to set up, recognising the causes of angular errors resulting in non-square edges. With the new SE77 jig, a lot of the angular issues should be readily correctable, but just be aware of them.

In addition to Ken's sound advice above, I would suggest that the first thing you do with a batch of chisels is get all the backs flattened and polished, and I would suggest that you do that on a waterstone. Then polish the backs - free hand - on the leather honing wheel of the Tormek. There's advice on the Forum with regard to preparing the honing wheel.

I would then use a fixed protrusion (I generally use 50mm) for all chisels, so as Ken said make a wee jig. Also use a marker pen on the chisel back for additional reference line. Assuming that the pupils would use chisels with a primary 25 degree bevel and 30 degree secondary bevel for general woodwork, I would do all the primary bevels, and then reset for 30 degree secondary bevels.

Cover the bevel area to be ground with felt marker (and keep applying it) - it will quickly show how the grinding is progressing. It only needs a brief touch on the wheel to give a quick indicator.

When doing the secondary bevel, regrade the wheel to fine and use light pressure so that the resulting striations in the bevel are fine.

Then polish the secondary bevels on the honing wheel, this time using the SE77. Do not press hard otherwise you will roll over the cutting edge and resulting in a poor cutting edge.

Take your time, a light touch all round with plenty checking of progress is the way to success.

Any problems, put them on the Forum as there's plenty of members who can advise.

[LCAC]

Awesome. Thanks for your info. Lots of reading, learning and practice to do. I used a Tormek a few years ago but that was only doing a couple of chisels for my major design project at uni.  It helped get the edge I needed with some additional honing on a stone.  My aim is to have the Tormek setup and have a few higher grit stones for some additional honing if needed.

All of the chisels we have are these ones:


It should make it easy to make some jigs to help measure the protrusion and keep that angle the same.
Eventually I'll get the jigs for the turning tools and if I'm feeling particularly brave, the jointer blades as well.

I hope you have the opportunity to spend some quiet time with your Tormek before being deluged with students and a deadline for sharp tools.

Do not be concerned about wearing out your precious grinding wheel. Like brake shoes, it is consumable. What is precious is your students.

We are close to the end of our school year and there will only be a a small amount of students that will need chisels. I'll try a few out and keep them aside for those who need them. I'll have plenty of practice between now and next year - I've got a few projects in mind that will require chisels and having the Tormek will make all the difference between a mediocre and a great join (I hope!).

The only thing I get concerned about wearing out (in regards to sharpening) is the chisels themselves. I've never had  good technique with a bench grinder and always seem to wreck the angle and burn the tool. Hence why I've gone down the path of the T8.

Again, thanks for the info, I'll continue searching the forum and watching videos. I'm feeling a big frustrated waiting for the courier to show up!

[Ken S]

Lewis,

In our enthusiasm to help, we have proceeded without all the facts. It would help us fine tune our thoughts if we knew smething more about your program and you. As an example, we might give you more complicated advice if you are a shop teacher with many years of experience. We might concentrate more on essential basics if you happen to be the Head of School or art teacher valiently attempting to improve the program. We are more than happy to help in either case.

I write this because we have had at least one situation where, in spite of our best intentions and many posts, the program failed. There were several complicating factors in that situation which we no longer have. I look forward to you having a very successful program.

Ken

[Ken S]

I did not see your last post before posting. If you read the first (imbedded) topic about beginning with a chisel, you will see that your Irwin Blue Chip chisels are exactly the chisels I recommend for learning the Tormek. You are off to a grand start! Please put the chisels narrower than half an inch aside. Narrow chisels are more difficult to sharpen. Become fluent with the middle range and then the widest chisels first.

Australia must be on a different calendar than the US. When does your school year start and end?

My compliments on your photography. That will make it easier to convey information.

One of the strengths of the Tormek system is the ability to accurately replicate an edge. That translates to removing the minimum amount of steel, and longer life for your tools.

Ken

[LCAC]

Thanks Ken.

We call it Design and Technology over here. I've been teaching it for 3 years.  We have students from grade 7 (12yrs) to grade 12 (17yrs) going through our program with a variety of projects going on. I'm not quite sure of the system in the States. Our school year consists of 4 terms of about 10 weeks and starts around January 30 and finishes around December 10. Yr's 7/8 have mandatory subjects and we cover basic timber, metals and plastics. As they go up in the years and choose the subject, we give them more complicated projects with a couple of free choice projects (in a simplified nutshell).

This year, I've got some of my older students making longboards, cosplay weapons and side tables. One of my senior students got to design and make a rocking chair. It's a simple one but it turned out really well. We get a bit of variety which keeps me learning plenty of different processes.

One of my aims to get get my younger students completing a few projects with some finer woodworking skills. Another aim is to foster some awareness and appreciation of fine woodworking in the younger years with the hope it stays with them as they get older. Having sharp tools is high on the list of making this happen. I know how frustrating using dull tools can be.

[Ken S]

Lewis,

Your school program sounds fascinating. I have always believed that education should prepare a person for life both on and off the job. In the US, most schools leave students unprepared for technical jobs. I use the word "technical" in its original Greek sense, (technos), meaning one who uses tools. I am all for academic education, however, we must not overlook the satisfying and essential career areas of designing, building and repairing the things which make everyday life possible and enjoyable.

A popular new show on our public television channel is "The Miss Fisher Mysteries". The latest episode involved several murders during "Christmas in July". We northern beings often forget that our seasons are inverted from our southern neighbors.

Sharpening chisels was what first drew me to the Tormek. Like many of us, I spent years with oilstones, water stones, sandpaper and a dry grinder. I have come to appreciate the no heat, no spark, and no grinding dust environment of the Tormek. The Tormek is very safe, versatile, and repeatably precise. You are correct in looking for efficient workflow strategies. Good setup increases accuracy and definitely saves time.

I started developing efficient set up strategies by using the Tormek TTS-100. It is a marvelous tool for setting up turning tools. I use it for chisels and planes. It combines solid trig theory with sharpening, quite amazing for a little piece of plastic. I use the B hole to set the distance from the gringing wheel to the universal support bar. This eliminates the vagaries and variables of one leg of the sharpening triangle. Using the protrusion slots sets the tool protrusion side of the triangle. (I use a piece of white labelmaker tape in one of the slots with lines scribed for 25 and 30 degree bevels.) With this seemingly simple tool, the tools we sharpen in Melbourne, Prague, Stockholm, London, New York, or the Yukon will be identical year in and year out with no tedious measuring.

The two small wheels automatically correct for wear differences in grinding wheels. (Mark a single spoke in each of the two wheels with a black marker. It makes it easy to see when the wheels make contact.)

Tormek invented the TTS-100 to set up turning tools. In my opinion, when combined with Tormek's new 186 gouge jig, it is their best combination. I do not understand why Tormek has not adapted it for other tools. (We have done so on the forum.) I would highly recommend purchasing a TTS-100 quickly. It will speed accurate sharpening of your chisels and plane blades. And, it will amaze you when you start sharpening your turning tools.

You will read many opinions on this forum. Combining many life experiences is the real strength of the forum. I welcome and respect other opinions. I also stand firmly behind my belief in the TTS-100. for the record, while I have sharpened turning tools, I am not an active turner.

Sharp tools will help create sharp minded students. Keep up the good work!

Ken

[Ken S]

Lewis,

My approach may seem slow paced to you. I would compare it to learning how to drive. Most are eager to actually drive. I prefer to learn the location and purpose of the controls and the rules of the road before moving.

My thoughts on basics like learning how to use the truing tool and tips on things like using the water trough are based on real world difficulties experienced by forum members and usually by me. I believe time spent carefully mastering the basics will get you to the finish line more consistently and more quickly.

The T8 has a very nice redesigned water trough. The trick to removing it is to pivot the bottom outward. Don't lift, just pivot. Spending a few minutes getting accustomed to the trough while still empty and before the grinding wheel is attached will stand by you well.

Look at the arrows on the EZYlock nut. You should never need Channelock pliers to remove the nut and grinding wheel. The shaft has a left hand thread. It works beautifully if you remember that!

Tormek solved a long problem with the T8 by providing oil for the leather honing wheel and directions. Great idea, long overdue.

By advice on the chisel backs will probably generate some disagreement. My Irwin Blue Chip chisels all have some hollow in the back. While not as theoretically perfect as dead flat, a hollow in the back will not cause any problems. A belly is not so good. I suggest you hold a straight edge (a combination square blade is fine) against the back the long way. If the blade is flat or touches both the tip and the far end, march on. When you have tested all of your chisels, polish the last inch or so on the leather honing wheel. Try to keep the chisel flat on the leather honing wheel. The goal is to make the back as smooth as the bevel where they intersect. Sharpness depends on both faces being smooth.

I see no advantage for you with two bevel angles. Twenty five degrees is traditional for high carbon steel. (Your Irwin chisels, like most chisels, are high carbon steel.) Two bevel angles reflects dry grinder and sharpening stones thinking. Grinding the entire bevel is standard operating practice with the Tormek. It also saves the time involved in the second set up. When you feel a burr the entire length of the bevel, you are through grinding.

Become accustomed to grading the grinding wheel from coarse to fine. The finely graded grinding wheel will remove many of the scratches left by the coarse wheel. Do not skip this step.

Step three is the leather honing wheel. Work slowly and carefully learning this skill. Most Tormekers use the leather honing wheel freehand. It is a skill worth learning.

If you can easily cut paper at this point, you are done. Start with your 3/4" chisels. Move up and down in size gradually, saving the narrow chisels for last.

Before closing for tonight, I would like to recommend you acquire a good black marker and a turkey baster. The black marker helps check your grinding. The turkey baster is the best way I know for removing water from the trough.

Enough for tonight.

Ken

[LCAC]

Ken, Do you work for Tormek? If you do, thanks for your awesome advice. If you don't, you deserve to be knighted.

So...The courier arrived today. I had a class in the afternoon so I had to wait a few hours before unpacking and setting up. I took my time and became familiar with the machine and parts. The first thing I did was oil the leather and rub some compound in. Seemed easy enough. After that, I figured the truing tool out and probably took off a bit more than needed to but no harm done.

I found the Anglemaster, set a chisel up in the jig to 25 degrees, used a sharpie on the bevel and went for it. My first impressions of the Tormek have been fantastic. It was slow, I expected this but I was setting a new angle.  After setting the new angle, the chisel had a new life in it. I graded the stone and polished the edge a bit more and then used the leather wheel by hand. I found it quicker than setting the jig up again.

I'm extremely happy with the edge it helped create.  A few practice cuts on some pine told me it was ready to go. Money well spent for easy (slightly slow) results. I suppose that's my only complaint. The speed.  However, once the new angles are set on the chisels, it shouldn't be hard to maintain with a protrusion jig of some sort.

I've attached a picture of my first chisel. The top is what I came from and the bottom is freshly honed. I'll have my work cut out for me to get through the rest of them but the results will be worth it!

[Ken S]

Bravo, Lewis!

Isn't it nice when a plan comes together. Do not be at all concerned if the set up seems slow; we have a cure. Once you standardize the distance from the universal support to the grinding wheel and the protrusion of the blade, set up is very quick. That will be in the next post.

You know what Tormek sharp can and should be. You are up and running. Your enthusiasm and very sharp tools will inspire your students.

For the record, I do not work for Tormek. (Stig is our resident Tormek employee. He also runs Tormek support. support.tormek.se) I did demonstrate the Tormek for Affinity Tool, the US importer, for one weekend, and am on call should they need a demonstrator. Mostly I am a very interested amateur. I review new Tormek products for the forum. I enjoy being part of this helpful and innovative group. Ideas get bounced all around the world. As a group we enjoy making things work better and, especially, helping members go from perplexed to proficient. Welcome aboard.

Ken

[RobinW]

Good start Lewis. I bet you feel like the dog's .....!

I previously said that you would probably use primary and secondary bevels on the chisels, and that was before your original photograph of the group of chisels. They appeared to be single bevel only. It may save you time if you measure the original bevels eg 30 degrees, and just grind/hone them at the same angle. The point of two bevels was to save having to re-sharpen the whole bevel face which was the case when using oil/waterstones and elbow grease.

With the Tormek you can just re-hone the whole bevel for re-sharpening. You don't need to re-grind each time. I would advise against free hand honing the bevel as it is more liable to induce rounding of the edge; likewise pressing too hard. (Been there done it - several times!)

Some of my chisels are 25 degrees, and some at 30 degrees. I don't have any with secondary bevels.
I use the 25 degrees when paring, and 30 degrees if chopping out, although the difference is barely noticeable. The wood itself can have a bigger effect.

Once you have been through a few chisels, and using Ken's blocks and standard sizing, your speed will increase noticeably.