Price confusion

[stevebot]

Sharp-eyed eBay users spotted Tormek T-7s on sale for $186 a few weeks ago. The offer kept self re-listing over the weekend and several dozen were ordered at that price, until the seller opened for business on the following Monday. Orders were cancelled and buyers were given false stories (out of stock) for a couple of days until the truth of the typo came out.

Now something similar is going on at Grizzly. An email to their customers promises their anniversary edition copy of the Tormek for $140, but the link takes you to their website where it on sale for $165. Yes, they copied the anniversary edition right down to the pearl gray paint job. Come Tuesday someone will be doing a lot of explaining to their customers.

[jeffs55]

Yep, they are not too smart at that place on eBay. I saw that ad on eBarf and "bought" one only to have the order cancelled.

[SharpenADullWitt]

Not T-7's, but T-8's.
I was sent a link to that and forwarded the Tormek one to my father.  I told him I expected it was a pricing error, as it was too close to the price of a replacement stone.  (figured someone pulled the wrong cell from a spreadsheet)  He didn't try to order it, as he doesn't do Ebay/Paypal thing.
HOWEVER, I went through the reviews of the company (both on and off Ebay) and several reviews (both positive and negative) mentioned they heavily spammed.  So I also wondered if by "mispricing" an item, they are trying to increase their mailing lists.
On the Grizzly clone, while I have read several reviews about the quality (and it is larger then and doesn't seem as durable as the Tormek), it will take the Tormek wheels and jigs (BTDT).  I have debated about using one, with a CBN wheel and the Tormek jigs for rough shaping (turning tools, etc).  I think I would be more apt to do that, then try a CBN on the Tormek, since it works as well as it does, and this is still cooler on the tools, then a bench grinder.  (all my current grinders are high speed, garage use tools.  A baldor and a couple Craftsman)

[Ken S]

I have very mixed and uncomfortable feelings about this topic. As forum moderator, I believe it is not within the established non commercial forum guidelines. To the best of my knowledge, there are no hard and fast written guidelines. We have always operated on courtesy and common sense. That has, in my opinion, worked well. I have no desire to change that.

If this topic is not out of bounds, it is at least close enough to warrant a review by the referees.

On the other hand, as a member, I want to help our new members and guests get off to a good start. Owning and becoming a skilled Tormek should be a satisfying experience. There is a real joy in restoring and sharpening tools.

I do not want that joy to be diminished by having negative feelings about being ripped off by underhanded sellers. I have previously posted about what I consider less that upright practices by some online sellers and how to avoid them. I was never quite comfortable with my posts on this subject, but I do believe we have an obligation to offer more than sharpening tips to our new members.

At this point, I will only restate my firm belief that both beginners and serious longtime Tormek users are best served dealing with a knowledgeable local authorized Tormek dealer.

Regarding the inexpensive clone, I will only state my belief that deciding to purchase a Tormek is a long term investment in quality. My T7 is only seven years old. I have no doubt that it will serve my heirs or future owners as well or better than it has served me. I add "or better" because Tormek is constantly developing and expanding its capabilities.

When considering any tools, price is only one consideration. Look at quality, longevity, ease of use, service/support and future growth. For cheap, occasional sharpening, nothing beats a piece of glass and wet or dry sandpaper. It will do the job at minimal cost and maximum effort.

I suspect this topic will not remain for long. If Sweden does not remove it, I plan to do so soon.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

If this topic is not out of bounds, it is at least close enough to warrant a review by the referees.

At this point, I will only restate my firm belief that both beginners and serious longtime Tormek users are best served dealing with a knowledgeable local authorized Tormek dealer.

Regarding the inexpensive clone, I will only state my belief that deciding to purchase a Tormek is a long term investment in quality. My T7 is only seven years old. I have no doubt that it will serve my heirs or future owners as well or better than it has served me. I add "or better" because Tormek is constantly developing and expanding its capabilities.

I suspect this topic will not remain for long. If Sweden does not remove it, I plan to do so soon.

Ken

So if they don't remove it, then you will override them?  Nice....
I think my questions are in the same vein as the BGM kit (don't use the mount but use the jigs).  Already stated my experience with quality not being the same (stone/motor, etc).  The ball should be in their court, not you take the ball and go home, Ken! (think about what you said)

[Ken S]

SADW,

You make very good points. I am not always right, but I do always try to listen objectively to logical arguments.

I will defer to Sweden on this.

Ken

[stevebot]

Sorry I brought this up. I did not want to create a problem for my friends.
The Grizzly price is corrected as of today. I would never recommend it over a Tormek, but I was thinking of running two back-to-back to make a hollow grinder. Tolerances are not too critical, and mounting one on each side of a WorkMate or similar bench would allow spacing adjustment and alignment. Turn one machine so adjacent wheels are both moving up.  Space wheels about 0.020" apart. You may have to tilt the machines toward each other, and you may have to play with the water trays.
Just dreamin'

[jeffs55]

F. Dick beat you to it. They have a bunch of ultra high priced sharpeners that use that principle.

[Ken S]

As I recall, the F Dick design team includes a member from the Cleveland area.

Ken

[Jan]

Steve, thank you for the inspiring idea of wet double wheel hollow grinder. 
You are correct that the grinders would have to be tilted toward each other because their bases are too vide for the desired gap 0.020" between the wheels. Tormek machines would require smaller tilt than Grizzly machines. 

Previously I was thinking about a double wheel belt hollow grinder for not tempered knife blades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GVB0qkRF1c

Jan

[stevebot]

US source of high end, high speed hollow grinders in TruHone of Orlando FL. A couple of Italian makers make smaller benchtop hollow grinders with ~4" wheels. Even using Tormeks you can beat the $15,000 cost of a TH or $8500 for a benchtop.

Long ago I bought a used benchtop Cozzini but UPS dropped the skid and bent the main shaft. Later a sharpener in Akron bought one new and went into the restaurant knife sharpening (rental) business. The 800 lb gorilla with the TH cut prices until my friend was forced to sell his business. I wanted to buy that machine but the contract with the gorilla required that it be sold out of state. Today it is just a dream of a long past missed opportunity, like that girl I knew in high school.

[Jan]

Steve, thanks for mentioning those two top companies.

I know the products of the Cozzini Company, they operate now under the name PRIMEdge.

Until now I was not aware of the Tru Hone Company. Their web impressed me. I am not sure if they have a European subsidiary. The custom and transportation fees make the life of many US products here difficult.

Jan

[stevebot]

Hi Jan,
The other Italian company I am familiar with is Fazzini. CATRA may also make a hollow grinder.