Name that stone...... stropping, stropping, stropping.

[SharpenADullWitt]

For those into carving, which stone do you use or recommend for sharpening?  The SG or the SB stone, that turners seem to prefer?
I have read through this section and seen the video, where the SJ stone is used as a final in place of, as well as a post where they mention using the jigs to keep the items in proper alignment, so with regular honing, they require fewer sharpenings.  But I am wondering what stone initially and I guess that also means what materials are your carving tools made of?

[RichColvin]

I prefer the SG stone for softer steels like most carving tools have.   The SB works well for HSS, but not as well (in my opinion) as for carbon steel.  But the SB will do a fine job in a pinch.

[Ken S]

I am not a carver. I consulted two of the videos on the "friends" tab of tormek.com. The wood carver video doesn't talk much about grinding stones. He did mention bevel differences for hard and soft wood.

The ice carver video spends more time with sharpening. She seems to use an SG stone on a T7. She mentions the importance of keeping the stone clean by using the stone grader. She does not talk about actually grading the stone. Her leather honing wheel on the T7 looks new (unused).

She shows a box of honing and polishing stones she used before acquiring an SJ stone. The SJ stone is on a T4. I am unsure why she uses the smaller diameter T4 for the one stonel. She stresses the importance of using very sharp tools.

I think the questionsof grading and pressure are more pressing than the choice of stone (SG or SB). Unfortunately, the handbook does not discuss this.

The SJ is a polishing stone. It is designed to polish a surface and will not sharpen.

I think using the SG graded coarse would be a good way to convert your carving tools to micro tools. 

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

I am not yet a turner, although I do have an older lathe.
I do understand why she would have the white stone on a T-4, because it would be something I would consider.
1.  She moves to where the work is.  (easier for transport)
2.  The white stone might be why it looks like her leather wheels are not used.
3.  The SG and SJ stone combo, would give her the option of sharpening or honing.

But I am also not a carver, although my father is, and from a group he is in, a lot of older woodworkers are, that get to an age where reactions are not as quick and they feel safer with manual woodworking, then power equipment based.
Those video's however, I have no idea when they were made, or if all the stones were available then, or if they are using the SG stone, because they prefer it, or because they haven't used it up yet.  Tormek's FAQ, discusses more the tool, then when and why to use what stone.  With just a bit more info, those video's could be educational, rather then just marketing drivel.

[RichColvin]

This is what the web site says (or at least said when I copied it down) to Evernote :

SB - Blackstone Silicon - Tormek Blackstone Silicon has been developed for shaping and sharpening HSS and other exotic alloyed steels.  It can also touch up tungsten carbide. It does not offer faster steel removal on ordinary carbon steel than the Tormek Original Grindstone.

The combination of abrasive hardness, shape and grain size is optimized to work efficiently at the Tormek system's low RPM. Its faster material removal is an advantage especially when shaping tools with a large bevel surface, where the grinding pressure is limited, for example, planer blades and woodturning skews.

The grit size 220 is the same as the Tormek Original Grindstone and can be altered to work like a 1000 grit stone with the Stone Grader SP-650. Thanks to its sharp and relatively small grains, the Blackstone removes hard steel efficiently even at low grinding pressure. The Blackstone Silicon also offers exceptional wear resistance. It can even touch up tungsten carbide, where the tool already has an established shape.

SG - Original Grindstone - The Tormek Original Grindstone has evolved over the years to offer the best combination of efficient steel removal, smooth surface finish and a long life.  This stone efficiently cuts all types of tools and steel qualities including HSS.

The unique composition of the stone, together with the Stone Grader SP-650 gives you two different cutting actions in one stone. The Stone grader polishes the sur­face of the grindstone from its normal 220 grit to a finish that works like a 1000 grit stone. This is a great advantage, since you can do the fine sharpening* with the same setting of the jig as used for the initial shaping* of the tool.

The outside of the stone has a depressed centre and a machined flat, smooth surface for flattening the back of plane irons and wood chisels.

The Original Grindstone is the ideal choice when you want both efficient steel removal and fine finish in the same stone over a wide variety of materials, from carbon steel to high speed steel.

SJ - Japanese Waterstone - The Tormek Japanese Waterstone is 4000 grit and delivers a mirror finish with hardly any visible marks.  Since it is made to create the finest surface, it has a limited steel removal capacity and cannot be used for shaping a tool.

It excels at sharpening hand tools like carving tools, knives, scissors, plane irons and wood chisels where a minimum of steel removal is needed and a superior surface finish is demanded. Its unique composition gives the stone an extremely long life. Since the surface left by the Japanese Waterstone is so fine, we do not recommend honing afterwards on the leather honing wheel.

Kind regards,
Rich

[Ken S]

Good comments, SADW.

I think Stig might know more about the reason the ice carver choosing the T4 as her second Tormek. I recognize Stig in several of these videos.

The T4 is definitely easier to transportdue to its smaller size and weight.

In the video, she shows her metal box of assorted slip stones and comments how much faster the SJ is. She may have preferred the stones to the leather honing wheel from habit.

The SG/SJ combination would be quite versatile.

I find the Tormek's slower pace is often an advantage, especially for older users. Most of us have overheated and overground a few tools over the years. The Tormek is quiet, dust and spark free, and safe to operate. Having the jigs can compensate for less than fully functional hands. The lack of hand pain compared to using bench stones is most welcome. As part of its versatility, the Tormek can serve both the busy farmer's market sharpener and the tranquil home workshop.

I remember when the Friends videos were first posted on the Tormek website. I would guess production to be in the 2010 to 2014 time period. The ice carver video is one of the more recent productions.

I agree. I would like more technical info in the videos, however, they seem well suited for marketing. They show Tormek as part of everyday life with skilled artists. My favorite video is probably the least technical. I laugh inside with the warm humor of Per Fritzell, the Tormek fisherman.

Instead of having the Tormek Friends videos being more technical, I would prefer to have similar videos which are entirely technical. I know that is difficult with a small number of employees.

Having a technical video devoted to woodcarvers, similar to the Tormek woodturners DVD, would be a real boon to carvers. The video should include choice of grinding wheels and how to set them up for carving tools (grading). It should include both basic sharpening as well as tweaking for different kinds of wood. The audience, carvers thirsty for knowledge, would have a longer attention span than a general audience. In my opinion, carvers presently have the least Tormek training available. I think the carvers deserve more.

I think knife sharpening deserves its own in depth video. Steve has done a fine job of this and has generously made much of his DVD available without charge. I would like to see Tormek produce a similar all Tormek based video.

The handbook covers both the SB and SJ in half a page. The handbook is centered around the original SG grinding wheel, and covers this well. I believe the numerous forum problems with the SB are caused by a lack of good training information.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

I think we are more used to using the jigs with the stones, so using a jig with an SJ stone, might mean less trips to the SG stone.  (and less chance of rounding over when trying to do things by hand on the leather wheel)  Between that, and the portability and how slowly the SJ wheel is supposed to diminish, that makes sense to me. (why a T-4)

I know my father and some of the old timers, definitely use what they can find for carving.  (seen old kitchen knives, converted and used)  I think my big question was I know things like plane blades have changed from my grandfathers planes, to new materials sold for LV or LN or as replacement blades for my old, original Stanley's.  I wasn't sure if carving tools went that way as well.  (newer materials, harder materials, etc)
My father looked at my Tormek's profile wheels, and created one of his own, for his clone, for a specific tool he was using frequently, at the time.  Makes me think the leather wheels, might be more important, for carvers, then turners.  I have a couple of projects, where I would like to do flat work, carved work and some turnings, as part of it.  So I am trying to know ahead of time, what I need to stay sharp.

Thanks

[Ken S]

Never underestimate the ingenuity of the old Popular Mechanics Home workshop crowd. They have had many years to hone their ideas.

I would be curious to hear what your father and the woodcarvers think about the SJ.

Ken