Re-handling ancient table knife

[Jan]

I have received for re-handling two ancient Solingen table knives. Both knives are frequently used, mainly as spreading knives. I can make the new knife handle of beech, oak or ash wood. Can anyone advise me what would be the best material for the handle scales which are only some 3 or 4 mm thick?



I cannot determine the type of the original wood. The blade is made of stainless steel but the rivets not.



I intend to glue and pin the handle scales to the blade.  For the finish I plan to boil the handle 3 hours in linseed oil and then use beeswax and cotton polishing wheel.

Jan

[stevebot]

Wood is most authentic and that looks like it might be walnut. But you might consider a fiber reinforced synthetic like Micarta or an impregnated wood like http://ajh-knives.com/stabwood.html

[Jan]

Thank you Steve for your prompt response and advice. 

The ash wood I mentioned is from my "own production". It is a branch of an ash tree which I found several years ago in local park. Now it is naturaly dry, cut and ready for some nice woodworking task. It is quite dense wood but the wooden pattern is not very pronounced.


Jan

[grepper]

Here are some good places for knife making supplies.  Handle material, rivets, etc.
http://www.knifemaking.com/category-s/159.htm
http://www.knifemaking.com/category-s/4.htm
http://www.exoticwoodsusa.com/order_knife_blanks.htm

[Herman Trivilino]

Jan, what's the reason for the customer wanting the new handles? It seems to me that new handles would ruin any value the knives may have as antiques. On the other hand, if that's not a concern and the customer just wants the knives restored for everyday use, why not try some sandpaper and mineral oil?

In any case, applying some mineral oil, or even mineral spirits, would better show the wood's grain pattern and possibly make it easier to identify the species.

[Jan]

Grepper, thanks for the useful links.   
Instead of rivets I use the inox pins, which are very cheap and you do not need the special countersink bit. In my case the handle scales are too thin for rivet head countersinking.

After removal of nicks on the edge, I faced the question, what is the proper edge angle for a table/spreading knife. Examining the worn original grind I came to an edge angle circa 90^o, but such a large edge angle is beyond the knife jig possibilities. Finally, I sharpened an edge angle of about 80^o. (The tool rest or the scissors jig would enable a 90^o edge angle).

Jan

[Jan]

Jan, what's the reason for the customer wanting the new handles? It seems to me that new handles would ruin any value the knives may have as antiques. On the other hand, if that's not a concern and the customer just wants the knives restored for everyday use, why not try some sandpaper and mineral oil?

In any case, applying some mineral oil, or even mineral spirits, would better show the wood's grain pattern and possibly make it easier to identify the species.

Good question, Herman. 

You are correct, for preserving the antique value of the knives it would be better to keep the current handle scales. For the everyday use the customer wishes to fix the problems with the handles. I am wondering whether the handles are original or if the knives were already re-handled in the past. My reason for it are the rusty iron rivets. I can hardly imagine that Solingen would use stainless steel for the blade and iron for handle rivets.

The handle scales are quite damaged because the knives were for some time everyday washed in a dishwasher.  The handle scales wobble on the blade and the rusty iron rivets cannot be tighten anymore because the wood would rupture.

Jan

[grepper]

Yea, if the handles are loose they either need to be replaced or removed/re-glued.  You don't want cracks where food born bacteria could accumulate.

I think a spreading knife is different from a cutting knife.  A spreading knife generally is actually rounded on the edge.  A table knife is also used for cutting as well a spreading so it needs to be sharper.

I have no idea what the bevel angle of a table knife should be.  Pretty blunt I imagine.

I've filled in cracks with epoxy when handle replacement is not worth it.  If the usage is just utilitarian, I'd use a composite handle that does not need the customer to maintain it if it's worth doing.

[Jan]

Grapper, thank you for your consideration of the issue and your advice.   

I will carefully remove the old handle scales, prepare wooden blocks for their replacement and let the customer decide.

An example of my recent kitchen knife re-handling is shown below. In this case the original handle was not available, I got only an old blade of quite hard carbon steel. So hard that I had difficulties to drill the holes for the pins.



This knife has to be washed by hand and dried immediately with a dish towel. 

Jan

[stevebot]

Nice work.
For a spreading knife I sharpen at 30 deg, then blunt until there is a .5 to 1.0 mm flat where the edge should be, then over polish to round off the whole "edge". You should be able to draw it across your skin safely. I once did the same for a knife to be used in the theater.

[SharpenADullWitt]

A lot of current health codes, require the knife handles to be completely enclosed (why commercial knives have plastic handles).  They do tend to leave some of the older chef's alone though. (neighbor retired at 65, but they didn't make him buy new knives after the change)
Walnut is a very common knife handle material.  However any wood that you see in a cutting board, should help with the sanitary concerns.  What I tend to see is Walnut, Beech, Cherry and Maple most often. 

[Jan]

SADW, thanks for posting your opinion regarding appropriate types of wood for knife handle. 

In this country the most abundant hardwood is beech. Steamed beech wood is still manually bent to make traditional chairs.

Jan

[Ken S]

My kitchen knife block holds my small assortment of kitchen knives. All but one are top of the line Henckel knives, purchased twenty six years ago when I thought I could cook. The one other knife in the block is a very humble Flint stainless steel six inch utility knife. My father called it his "sandwich knife". It has a well weathered wooden handle. It dates from ca 1950, like me. In recent years  I use it primarily as a letter opener.

I have kept it for sentimental reasons. It reminds me of Jan's knives and also his grandfather's mortise chisel. (I have a few treasured chisels like that.) When doing restoration work, we should remember the customer. Those humble table knives may have a great deal of sentimental value to the current owner. If they do not, the cost efficient choice would be to replace them.

The choice of handles could make a statement. When I ordered a couple chisels from Lie-Nielsen, I chose native Maine Ironwood instead of the more exotic cocabolo. It seemed better suited to a working tool.

Ken

[Jan]

Nice work.
For a spreading knife I sharpen at 30 deg, then blunt until there is a .5 to 1.0 mm flat where the edge should be, then over polish to round off the whole "edge". You should be able to draw it across your skin safely. I once did the same for a knife to be used in the theater.

Steve,

thank you very much for your recognition and guidance on how to sharpen a spreading knife.   

Jan

[Elden]

Found the following link about making a butter knife to be interesting.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Butter-Knife-for-Spreading-Cold-Hard-Butter/?ALLSTEPS