My eBay selling experience

[SharpOp]

Hi, folks.

I just wanted to pop back in to tell you a bit about selling my T7 on eBay.

First: thanks, Ken, for your support!

The auction bidding, for T7, knife jigs, scissors jig, all the stuff that comes in the box, rotating base, work mat, two universal support bars, a copy of Steve B's book and video course, etc. closed at $801.00.  I wasn't unhappy with that.

Then, PayPal deducted $26-something, eBay charged me $85, and UPS charged twice the shipping charge that showed on the embedded calculator on the eBay site when I listed (I had already packaged the stuff and accurately measured and weighed the package).

So lumping everything together, I netted $219.00 less than the buyer deposited to my PayPal account.

To add insult to injury, the buyer, although he paid promptly, never made any attempt at communication or acknowledgment of my communication (I was able to ship the same day the auction ended).  A little annoyed, I sent him a final message breaking down the details of the transaction, although I assured him that I understood it wasn't his problem and that I wished him the best of luck with his new T7.  He hasn't bothered to respond to that, either.

Why share all of this with you?  To let you know that the "eBay experience" has become expensive and unpleasant for sellers and that, among other things, you can't trust their shipping calculators, probably especially for relatively heavy items that won't fit in flat-rate USPS boxes.

Best to all of you.

  ~Doug

[Ken S]

Ouch! That's lousy, Doug. I followed your auction, and was pleased that your gross price went so well. I knew the buyer was getting a good machine.

It seems illogical for the buyer to be so rude. Beyond common courtesy, you would be an excellent source of information for him. Too bad, for both of you.

I hope you know your thoughts and comments are always welcome here. You are still one of our Tormekers.

Best,

Ken

[jeffs55]

Happens all the time. I once sold some lead bullets to a buyer in Alaska and the shipping was more than the gross amount collected. That means I went in the hole. But, when you buy from me you get what you paid for even if I lose out. I would not send a break down of your costs again. The buyer does not want to hear your problems and it makes you look bad. I would however, just out of spite, block that bidder/ buyer so that he can never take advantage of you again. Also, when someone takes more than a week to even send payment, they get NO feedback and are blocked in the future. I told a guy once that the nicest thing I could say after he took so long to pay was nothing at all.

[stevebot]

eBay is a better experience for buyers than for sellers.  Sellers get giuged in hidden ways, as you experienced. I have to price above the market to sell on eBay and make normal margins.  Same on Amazon.  My book is $13.15 on my website, shipping included, $13.90 on eBay and $14.94 on Amazon.

[Rob]

They're insane because all they'll achieve is give away a niche market for a cheaper auction house to open up beneath them. I can never understand the short term thinking where profit is concerned especially when you have access to some heavy hitter marketing folks like in major companies like e bay.  Next quarters revenue trumps next years....absolutely bonkers.

[jeffs55]

Rob, the problem for us consumers and would be sellers is that they are the king of the hill by far. Longevity has its merits as far as reputation and name go. I agree that eBarf is buyer oriented and really, but really aren't most of us buyers? I have sold a few things and probably lost more than I gained but got rid of the stuff. I should have thrown all this in the trash and avoided the hassle. I always search eBarf for whatever I am looking for first. Amazon is NOT the cheapest place to go anymore. They have now established themselves as the "go to" place for anything and prey on the unwary. Most of their prices are now at or near MSRP , note that I said "most". You can get deals there if you are sharp. Tormek sharp, like me! Bottom line is if you are a buyer, then eBarf is the place to go and if you are a seller, not so much. Then again, where else is there? Craigslist? Sure, but you are advertising to literally millions on eBarf and hopefully thousands on Craigs. Bottom line, you need to be careful what you are getting into wherever you sell or buy from. Read the manual. I know that is an alien concept for most men but it might change how you operate in the future.

[Ken S]

I agree with Jeff. Although I probably sound like a broken record promoting purchasing a new Tormek through a dealer, I have actually purchased a very few Tormek items through ebay. (mostly for my experimental work).

A knowledgeable Tormek buyer may on occasion find a good buy online. More often than not, the online prices are higher than purchasing the same item directly from an authorized dealer. Often purchases through a dealer are also with free shipping, a considerable saving for a thirty pound T7.

Another online for a new online purchaser is that often the items are outdated models or jigs. I recall an online listing for a new T3 buy it now for $449 USD. This was a year after the much improved T4 was available. That is more than a new T4 would cost.

Whoever purchased Doug's T7 got a good machine. Most of the time, I believe a new purchaser is better served by a dealer.

Ken

[SharpenADullWitt]

The biggest competitor Ebay had for a long time was Yahoo auctions.  In the USA at least, they closed that a LONG time ago (my initial understanding was it was still going in some countries after the USA one stopped).  No idea if it exists anywhere now.
There have been others, but none anywhere close, and the one getting the ad's, they make money by charging for each bid.
Ebay changed from when I first bought a 387 math coprocessor in 96, where there were more individual sellers, to where it is used more by companies, and they had more payment options. (paypal wasn't forced, US postal money orders were what I used, and it paid off the time one said they didn't get it, and the Postal inspectors knocked on their door with proof)

[SharpOp]

I would not send a break down of your costs again. The buyer does not want to hear your problems and it makes you look bad.

Oh, I don't think it makes me "look bad" (and I'm too old to care much, anyway)  I made it very clear to the buyer that it wasn't his fault and not his responsibility to fix or even worry about.  And I wished him good luck with the machine and reminded him again of the valuable resources of this forum and his almost-neighbor, Steve (he lives in Parma).  I saw the breakdown more as a warning or caution about the ever-increasing costs of selling on eBay and the ridiculous inaccuracy of its shipping calculators (in this case, 50% low)

I would however, just out of spite, block that bidder/ buyer so that he can never take advantage of you again.

I don't think the guy took advantage of me; I think eBay, PayPal & (maybe, depending upon whether they set up the embedded calculator) UPS took advantage of me.

They buyer's poor behavior, IMHO, was lack of communication.  I see more and more of this lack of courtesy and, frankly, common sense, as the years and decades go by.  It is at its very worst among millennials (wherever, exactly they fit), who tend to be totally unable to pull their attention away from their gadgets to focus on a human, four feet away, attempting to interact with them.  Yesterday, I dealt with a 20-something retail clerk who just couldn't "stay with me" because he was constantly checking his smart phone and texting quick replies.  He never excused himself; he was clearly engaged in what, for him and his contemporaries, is normal behavior.  The purchase in question amounted to about $5K.

I'm afraid we've created a virtual world and raised at least one generation of people who live there more than they do in the world of rocks and trees, bricks and mortar, other humans in the flesh.  And we're rapidly raising yet another.  My wife teaches elementary school (thankfully, not for much longer).  She tells me that the kids are reluctant to go outside to play, or for almost any other reason.  They beg to be allowed to stay inside and play computer games at recess.

As for eBay itself, the reason I have so few transactions under my current account is that I closed my first one several years ago, after doing thousands of deals, almost since the beginning of the site.  It was becoming increasingly clear that it was no accident that they were treating small sellers more badly every few months; it's part and parcel of a deliberate strategy.  Since the rude interruption to my sharpening plans arose, I thought I'd try once again -- I had already opened a new account and done a few small deals to get a feel for the new environment.  Never again.

  ~Doug

[Ken S]

Doug,

Assuming you have good shipping records, you should contact UPS and complain about the discrepency between their calculator and the actual shipping cost. A dollar or two would be no big deal, however, double the cost for shipping a Tormek is substantial, and they should stand by the calculator quote.

Ken

[mark1]

I've given up altogether on eBay and Amazon for selling things. I'm lucky enough to live in a large city, so Craigslist has been a good option for me. If the population is large enough, there is always more than a few people interested in my items, and because the sales are handled face-to-face, there are no fees or shipping costs to worry about.

[grepper]

Off subject:

I really here you about the loss of real world connection and understanding of same with the device addicted, mostly young folks.  The saddest thing is that it that the animals and trees and our environment suffer for it.  Without connection and exposure, how can there be appreciation?  Sad. Sad.

Get this!  I saw a news report about how injuries caused by people walking into holes, falling off cliffs or strolling into traffic and getting hit by cars, etc., whilst staring at their phones have become so common that they are now being added to hospital statistics of the leading causes of injury.  Sigh.

But, not to worry!  There is an app for that!  There is actually an app that uses the phone camera to display a small, forward view live image on the phone screen of where you are walking.  If you really think about it, how else could you possibly know where you are going?   

On subject:

I recently made a purchase from craigslist.  It went well.  I went to the dude's house, saw the stuff, gave him his cash, and left with the stuff.  Craigslist is free.  Free to place the ad.  Free to purchase.  That was my first experience with craigslist.  I suspect that the kind of folks likely to be purchasing tool related stuff are likely to be pretty safe individuals to deal with.  Far less flakey than trying to sell or buy, say, a smart phone.

[jeffs55]

If you are looking down at the phone screen then the screen must be nearly horizontal to the earths surface. As the lens (es) are on the front and/or back of the camera and and one is now looking at the sky and one is looking at the ground, how does one point ahead? I guess that app could work if the camera were being held in front of your face or maybe at a 45 degree angle though. I tend to look at people that get killed while being stupid as succumbing to Darwins theory. About Craigslist, since life is so cheap to a lot of people always expect the worst. We have a guy in jail for murdering  a man and a woman that responded to his Craigslist ad for a vintage Ford Mustang for sale. Seems they drove to another town to see the car and he murdered them.

[grepper]

The obvious solution is to tape a stick to the top of your head to hold the phone directly in front of the face.  Not only will the phone be positioned properly for the camera to be pointed straight ahead, but you will never miss the latest tweet, text or Facebook thing!  As a bonus it avoids the new medical malady, text neck: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3274835/Shocking-X-rays-teenagers-text-neck.html

A more advanced solution would be a motorized version to hang off the head stick that is driven by an eye tracking app that tilts/pans the phone in the direction you are looking.  This avoids having to fumble around on your plate of food with your fingers to ascertain what you are eating.

I was in a restaurant the other day and saw a guy engrossed in his phone and texting with one hand while using his fingers to eat his salad with the other hand.  Startled me so much that I dropped my handful of mashed potatoes!

[Herman Trivilino]

That was my first experience with craigslist.  I suspect that the kind of folks likely to be purchasing tool related stuff are likely to be pretty safe individuals to deal with. 

Craigslist is a great way to buy and sell locally, as well as a good source of skilled or semi-skilled labor. I have bought and sold several CPAP machines, and hired trash haulers at cheap prices when I was doing remodeling projects.

I always recommend that you meet the buyer/seller at a neutral and public location, but I seldom take my own advice. After talking with them on the phone I either go to their house or have them come to mine.