grading with diamond plates works way better

[sleepydad]

wanted to post this here... I have T7 and have been using it for maybe 5 years now.

I was curious so I tried using my DMT 8" Dia-Sharp Diamond plates to grade the stone.  it works a lot better and you can get a really nice finish without strop.

album of a chisel I did

http://imgur.com/a/gpq5O

if I was Tormek... I would start circulating this information because the grading stone is substandard once you grade your stone with the diamond plates.

hope somebody finds this useful.

[Ken S]

Excellent post, Andy. I for one am very interested. What grit(s) of diamond plates are you using? Thanks for posting the photos, and keep posting!

Ken

[sleepydad]

Course,fine, extra fine

I think the grits are 300,600,1200

edit:

I went back and got the exact grits off the DMT stones.

120 mesh, 120 micron - extra extra course
600 mesh, 25 micron - fine
8000 mesh, 3 micron - extra extra fine

[jeffs55]

I really do not think Tormek would want this spread anywhere...........unless they made the diamond stones.

[SharpenADullWitt]

I'd like you to update this at a later date.  I am wondering if you will find you can't get it back to course as easily, or you find out you use/wear more of the stone, due to the hardness of the diamonds.
Thanks

[Ken S]

Jeff, I really do not think Sweden (Tormek) has a problem with this. Whether using diamond plates for stone grading or CBN or Norton 3X wheels for grinding, the machine used is a Tormek. Also, for everyone like Andy, who is both clever enough and willing to spend enough to adapt diamond plates, there are thousands of satisfied Tormek users happily using the stand issue stone grader. I believe the two worlds can coexist.

SADW, we really need to get the mindset that the grinding wheel is consumable, like brake shoes. Even the stone grader does not return the grinding wheel to the coarseness of a freshly trued wheel.

I believe the"new" EZYlock shaft says a lot about Tormek's forward looking innovation. The Tormek was conceived as a one stone machine in an era when most knives and woodworking tools were  made of high carbon steel. The stone grader allowed the one wheel to function as both coarse and fine. Given the luxurious large diameter and width of the Tormek grinding wheel, this dual function was and continues to be quite a saving for the user. The leather honing wheel was added very early on.

About five years ago the SB-250 blackwheel and Japanese wheels were introduced. The EZYlock shaft replaced the standard shaft to allow rapid toolless wheel changes. In my opinion,Ii believe we will continue to see many innovations from Tormek. The availibility of low cost man made abrasives and industrial diamonds is revolutionizing sharpening. Fortunately, the Tormek is a versatile machine.

Several years ago, Ionut was using a diamond file to true his grinding wheel. He thought it less aggressive the TT-100 truing tool.

In the handbook, author and inventor, Torgny Jansson, thanked the Tormek users for many suggestions over the years. With Andy's use of diamond plates, we are witnessing one of those innovative ideas forming. Keep up the good work, Andy.

Ken

[sleepydad]

I'd like you to update this at a later date.  I am wondering if you will find you can't get it back to course as easily, or you find out you use/wear more of the stone, due to the hardness of the diamonds.
Thanks

I have been doing this for years now.  in fact I find I get a much better cutting surface with the 120 mesh, 120 micron - extra extra course grade.

it clearly removes more material off the grinding wheel than the OEM grader stone.

for me, I see the grinding wheel as a consumable and it does not bother me to burn that grinding wheel down a bit faster.  it cleans the wheel off and you get a nice fresh surface for cutting. 

[sleepydad]

Jeff, I really do not think Sweden (Tormek) has a problem with this. Whether using diamond plates for stone grading or CBN or Norton 3X wheels for grinding, the machine used is a Tormek. Also, for everyone like Andy, who is both clever enough and willing to spend enough to adapt diamond plates, there are thousands of satisfied Tormek users happily using the stand issue stone grader. I believe the two worlds can coexist.

SADW, we really need to get the mindset that the grinding wheel is consumable, like brake shoes. Even the stone grader does not return the grinding wheel to the coarseness of a freshly trued wheel.

I believe the"new" EZYlock shaft says a lot about Tormek's forward looking innovation. The Tormek was conceived as a one stone machine in an era when most knives and woodworking tools were  made of high carbon steel. The stone grader allowed the one wheel to function as both coarse and fine. Given the luxurious large diameter and width of the Tormek grinding wheel, this dual function was and continues to be quite a saving for the user. The leather honing wheel was added very early on.

About five years ago the SB-250 blackwheel and Japanese wheels were introduced. The EZYlock shaft replaced the standard shaft to allow rapid toolless wheel changes. In my opinion,Ii believe we will continue to see many innovations from Tormek. The availibility of low cost man made abrasives and industrial diamonds is revolutionizing sharpening. Fortunately, the Tormek is a versatile machine.

Several years ago, Ionut was using a diamond file to true his grinding wheel. He thought it less aggressive the TT-100 truing tool.

In the handbook, author and inventor, Torgny Jansson, thanked the Tormek users for many suggestions over the years. With Andy's use of diamond plates, we are witnessing one of those innovative ideas forming. Keep up the good work, Andy.

Ken

Thanks Ken yes I was just hoping others might benefit from my discovery.  I love my T7 it has saved me so much time but I'm always looking to push things and get a better edge.  I will continue to try things with my T7.  it's really a great machine.

[SharpenADullWitt]

I'd like you to update this at a later date.  I am wondering if you will find you can't get it back to course as easily, or you find out you use/wear more of the stone, due to the hardness of the diamonds.
Thanks

I have been doing this for years now.  in fact I find I get a much better cutting surface with the 120 mesh, 120 micron - extra extra course grade.

it clearly removes more material off the grinding wheel than the OEM grader stone.

for me, I see the grinding wheel as a consumable and it does not bother me to burn that grinding wheel down a bit faster.  it cleans the wheel off and you get a nice fresh surface for cutting.

That provides a bit more information.  I understand the grinding wheel is a consumable and do consider it as such, however the amount of wear is something that without data, I couldn't get an informed decision on.
For example, if one were to use the TT50 and take off more then they needed, because it was unscrewed and gouged deeper, rather then in its proper spot. (why waste wheel? being the whole point)

[Herman Trivilino]

I understand the grinding wheel is a consumable and do consider it as such, however the amount of wear is something that without data, I couldn't get an informed decision on.
For example, if one were to use the TT50 and take off more then they needed, because it was unscrewed and gouged deeper, rather then in its proper spot. (why waste wheel? being the whole point)

I agree, but it's nice to have it available as an option. Spending too much time and applying too much pressure will diminish grindstone life. It takes practice to get a feel for when more than enough is too much.

[Ken S]

I do not happen to have a diamond stone at present, (That may change, as Andy's idea is fascinating.) I would approach using a diamond stone the way I approach using the TT-100 truing tool. I take very light cuts. Often these cuts are less than a full number on the microadjust. The first cuts only make contact with the grinding wheel at the highest spot. Gradually, over several light cuts I reach the point where the entire wheel in being dressed. Be observant; you will recognize this point. Stop after the first full contact light cut. The job is complete with minimum wheel wear. There should be no wheel waste with either method.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

Is something like this what you have in mind?

http://www.amazon.com/DMT-D8C-Dia-Sharp-Continuous-Diamond/dp/B0001WP1L0/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1446434454&sr=8-10&keywords=diamond+stone

Ken, I don't see this as a truing tool. It wouldn't be aggressive enough, and you wouldn't have the control you'd need without a jig.

I do see it as something that could be used to dress the grindstone. Something that might work better than the coarse side of the stone grader when the grindstone gets clogged. So it wouldn't be a replacement for the stone grader, either, as you'd still need that for fine grading. Perhaps a fine grade diamond stone could do the fine grading.

[sleepydad]

the process I use for a typical straight edge.  this is just an example of a wide chisel used for general use in soft woods.

1 set grade with coarse diamond plate, set angle to say 25 deg.

grind primary until done
2 set grade with fine diamond plate, move angle up by maybe 1-2 deg

grind a bit until I can see secondary bevel
3 set grade to extra fine, move angle up again by maybe 1-2 deg

grind a bit until I can see shiny strip

start to finish it takes me no more than maybe 5 mins to sharpen a typical chisel.

I think it's key to pop the angle at least 1 deg each time so your just creating a secondary bevel once you have your primary. you should be able to hear an audible difference between the different grades you apply to your stone with the plates.

you can get a very nice finish off the last plate. 8000 mesh, 3 micron - extra extra fine

[Ken S]

Andy,

I believe you have opened the door to a fascinating new technique. I can see some diamond stone in my shop in the very near future.

On a practical level, how do you change the universal support to add the extra degree for the bevel? Do you measure or go be the amount of turning of the micro adjust?

Ken

[wootz]

sleepydad,
Wouldn't grading a stone put a lot of wear on the diamond plate?
I've always thought it's the shortest way to ending life of your diamond plate.

Shapton produces a lapping plate for stones by fusing diamonds in the glass,
and DMT produces Dia-Flat Lapping Plate by special technology for flattening water stones,
but regular diamond plates are not designed to withstand the extreme conditions incurred when flattening other abrasives.

A quote from the DMT website:
"Some DMT Diamond Sharpeners could be used (and have been used) for flattening, however, they were designed for sharpening, not flattening, therefore, DMT assumes no liability for sharpening stones worn out due to this method of use."

Personally, once I tried flattening an Arkansas benchstone with an EZE-LAP diamond plate, which stripped off a good deal of the diamond coating.

And Ken was through something similar: "I recently almost ruined a two hundred dollar  diamond flat plate truing my grandfather's carborundum bench stone. That was really dumb." http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2337.msg11363#msg11363

Your DMT plates, do they show much wear from grading the Tormek stone 'for years'?