Sharpening for a better burr

[Rob]

excellent chaps...I had a good chuckle at that volley of posts. What a team :-)

[Ken S]

Rob,

You might be interested in learning how the better burr for the Tormek originated.

Many years ago, Torgny's ancestor sailed to the United States to promote his new idea. He had invented a mouse powered wet grinder. It could be used where there was no stream to provide water power.

He was demonstrating this new wonder to a crowd of interested workmen and hobbyists in Cleveland. One of Steve's ancestors happened to be in the crowd and made the comment that he thought the machine would work better if the wheel turned away from the knife blade instead of into the blade. The wise Swede thought a minute, and then agreed. He opened the cage and turned the mouse around.

That is the true story of how the Tormek came to be bidirectional.

Ken

[SharpOp]

Yup. Great quote.

[Jan]

I would like to share with you my further step in finalizing the prototype of the height-adjustable flat platform. I realized, that for practical use, it is necessary to ensure smooth movement of the platform's knife rest towards the wheel. After a fruitless thinking how to do it in DIY mode, I decided, with a heavy heart  , to sacrifice my Steel Marking Gauge Scale.

In the images below you can see, that I bolted the gauge's moving head stock to the steel plate attached to the main framing square mount. The gauge's head stock is supported by two short aluminium profiles to provide some clearance for sharpener's hands. The own aluminium knife rest was attached to the gauge's beam by two bolts.





A locking screw can fix the sliding beam with the aluminium knife rest in the desired position. Moreover the iron beam supports the aluminium knife rest almost to the wheel. Not surprisingly, this gauge is characterized by great stiffness, squarness of sliding and high positioning accuracy.

So now I can start their own testing.

Jan

[Ken S]

Quite a machine, Jan! It makes my jig seem Neanderthal.

I don't think the average Tormek user requires such precision, however, it is reassuring to know that such accuracy is within the range of a Tormek and a creative mind.

Good job,

Ken

[Jan]

Quite a machine, Jan!

Thank you, Ken. 

It makes my jig seem Neanderthal.

Oh no Ken, disagreed! Your, no cost, wooden flat platform is fully adequate for machete and farm tools sharpening, as example. 

I don't think the average Tormek user requires such precision, however, it is reassuring to know that such accuracy is within the range of a Tormek and a creative mind.
Good job,
Ken

My (mis)use of the Steel Marking Gauge  is kind of overkill for the application. I was considering it carefully, because marking gauge is a very useful tool for woodworking and metalworking also.

But you already know, that for the elegance of a solution I am ready to sacrifice a lot. Elegance, for me, implies beauty, simplicity and proportion. The idea may seem strange in technical disciplines, but on the contrary, it becomes essential in all fields. Symmetry might be the leading principle of the universe.

Jan

[Herman Trivilino]

When using these platforms to sharpen a knife I find that the knife keeps lifting off the platform. The solution for me was to mount the platform on the other side of the machine so that the grindstone turns toward the platform rather than away from it.

[Jan]

Yes Herman, I know from your previous posts, that you prefer grinding towards the edge. 

Your opinion guided me to orient the prototype of my height-adjustable flat platform for grinding towards the edge, also. Maybe it's not good to see, but all the photographs above show my platform mounted for grinding towards the edge.

However, the whole platform can be quite easily flipped over, to enable grinding away from the edge. 

Jan

[SharpOp]

The idea [elegance] may seem strange in technical disciplines, but on the contrary, it becomes essential in all fields.

Absolutely.  Certainly, craft without elegance is, at best, boring.

Your solution, here, passes the elegance test with flying colors*, Jan.

~Doug

*English idiom that probably derives from something like "coming into port with colors flying."

http://bzin1.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/1/6/3216195/5972502.jpg

[Jan]

Thank you for your kind words Doug! I appreciate it! 
Moreover I have the opportunity to improve my command of English.

But testing of the platform prototype is still ahead of me, and it is known that the devil is in the details.

Jan

[Elden]

 So, we now are approaching square one or where Steve started. Using the Tormek knife jigs. Seems like Ken or someone speculated as to why Tormek probably wouldn't use the platform approach for knives. It may be called control. Yes, greater control is achieved when grinding into the edge versus grinding away from the edge with the platform.

   Steve's original post (video) was largely in regard to "grinding off the edge to create a larger exit bur". I missed his opening statement the first few times I watched the video. "When we want absolutely precise and good looking bevels, we use the Tormek and use the knife jig".

   I am not saying that platform is not a good working piece to have. However, Herman states "I find that the knife keeps lifting off the platform."  This was said in regard to grinding off the edge of the knife. I am not planning to get rid of the platform I have that is made from Ionut's and Herman's ideas.

   To get the larger exit bur Steve is referring to, one will have to grind off the edge.

   The Tormek knife  jigs insure that the knife does not ride up the wheel when grinding off the edge. The exception would be when doing the belly of the knife. By the way, practice is still required to obtain "absolutely precise and good looking bevels".


Jan, great job. I like that you made it so that you can grind either direction. Let us know how you get along grinding off the edge.

[SharpOp]

   Steve's original post (video) was largely in regard to "grinding off the edge to create a larger exit bur". I missed his opening statement the first few times I watched the video. "When we want absolutely precise and good looking bevels, we use the Tormek and use the knife jig".

I think we all agree.

The focus of this whole platform-jig/grinding-off-the-edge/little-help-from-the-laser group experiment has been rapid, preparation of working edges for kitchen knives in a setting like a farmers market.  I think the approach looks promising for meeting working-knife quality requirements, with practice and assuming a careful operator (one who cares).  I don't think it's going to win many bevel beauty contests.

  However, Herman states "I find that the knife keeps lifting off the platform."  This was said in regard to grinding off the edge of the knife.

Herman's right. There is a tendency for the stone to lift and pull the edge of the knife a bit.  With the knife riding more or less flat on a platform jig and not all that much bevel surface to pull against, I'm not experiencing major forces to resist or overcome.

By the way, practice is still required to obtain "absolutely precise and good looking bevels".

That's the truth.  The Tormek jigs permit more than enough freedom of movement for humans to make a mess of a knife.  Experimental knives to mess up should be part of every new sharpener's initial purchase.

~Doug

[Jan]

Interesting exchange of greatly similar views, Elden and Doug.
I greatly agree with your opinions, also! 

My first experience with the flat platform is, that the water flow is different from Tormek knife jig. Water collects on horizontal surfaces of the platform and drips where you least prefer. I will test whether the tilt shoes are able to solve this problem and direct the water back into the water trough. When this does not help, it will be necessary to install some water chute.

Jan

[Elden]

With the knife riding more or less flat on a platform jig and not all that much bevel surface to pull against, I'm not experiencing major forces to resist or overcome.

Doug,
   Thanks for the reply. That is what I was hoping to hear from someone, that the lifting, climbing force is able to be overcome.

Jan,
   Thanks for your observations. I can see where that would make a mess. Please keep us updated as you continue using your platform.

[Herman Trivilino]

Yes Herman, I know from your previous posts, that you prefer grinding towards the edge. 

When I wrote that comment, Jan, it was in response to the wooden platforms I saw on a previous page. I hadn't seen the photos you had posted of your platform. It's well built, and a work of superb craftsmanship and inventiveness. I don't see, though, how you adjust the angle. It seems you could fashion a micro adjuster quite easily as you already have threaded bolts inserted in the universal support sockets.