Simple adjustment of the grinding angle

[cbwx34]

Hi again Ton.

I have now tried to make a spreadsheet again. But I can't seem to get it to work.
I want it to calculate the height of the USB, vertically from the top of my Tormek T8. The same way as Knifegrinders App is working. The reason why i just don't buy the app is because i would like to be able to get the measurements for both the vertical USB stand and the horisontal at the same time, and over time also the FVB. So i don't need to use the program more than once, if I want to use both (all tree) USB stands.

I can't seem to get the math right though. If I input 12 degrees per side, and set the USB to the calculated height on my Tormek, i measure approximately 18 degrees per side with the Tormet angle tool (WM-200).

I have used http://cossincalc.com/ to help me get the calculations correct.

Do you by any chance have the time to look over my spreadsheet?
It is made in MS Excel, and saved as both .ods and .xlxs.

Onedrive link to my spreadsheet: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvIzveHgBujUgoBVJhQfpIqGpQFXFQ?e=wncg5h

Thanks in advance! 

- Benny

I looked at your spreadsheet.... I didn't review all the math, but your measurement 'j' should be from the center of the shaft, to the top of the casing of the T-8... and should be around --- don't look if you don't want to know ---   29mm.  (I say "don't look", in case you want to measure it yourself and not be biased)..

Or just measure directly to the wheel as done HERE and it will satisfy all your needs in one calculator!

[BennyJ]

Wow.. No one has ever become one of my best friends that fast! You just did, cbwx34!

That was it.. I calculated wrong, i subtracted the 6mm from the calculation, instead of adding.

You just made my day! Thank you very much!

I am so happy right now!! I think i have used 40 hours on this  .
(I have made a much bigger sheet, the one i showed you guys was just a little sample, of the most important.)

Thanks again!

- Benny

[cbwx34]

Wow.. No one has ever become one of my best friends that fast! You just did, cbwx34!

That was it.. I calculated wrong, i subtracted the 6mm from the calculation, instead of adding.

You just made my day! Thank you very much!

I am so happy right now!! I think i have used 40 hours on this  .
(I have made a much bigger sheet, the one i showed you guys was just a little sample, of the most important.)

Thanks again!

- Benny

Haha, you're welcome... very cool.   

Nice work,  BTW.   

[jvh]

I have now tried to make a spreadsheet again. But I can't seem to get it to work.
I want it to calculate the height of the USB, vertically from the top of my Tormek T8. The same way as Knifegrinders App is working. The reason why i just don't buy the app is because i would like to be able to get the measurements for both the vertical USB stand and the horisontal at the same time, and over time also the FVB. So i don't need to use the program more than once, if I want to use both (all tree) USB stands.

Hi BennyJ,

did you try TormekCalc?



TormekCalc 2 comming soon...

[BennyJ]

Hi jvh,

No, i had not seen your sheet. It looks really cool! I will try it out!

Thanks!

- Benny

[Dutchman]

...
I want it to calculate the height of the USB, vertically from the top of my Tormek T8.
The same way as Knifegrinders App is working.
...

When setting the USB from reference points other than the nearest surface of the stone, you must take into account larger deviations jn the resulting grinding angle.
Thus, any inaccuracy in the diameter of the stone will immediately add to the deviation from the desired USB distance.
The method with the Kenjig, on the other hand, is accurate and very reproducible.

[Dutchman]

In the first post, at the start of this thread, I added an extension that references Perra's spreadsheet to generate tables for use with the KJ-45 that does not have an adjustable stop.
See https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849

[Dutchman]

This topic has been made sticky so that it will always be at the top of the board. To ensure the availability of the most important documents, they are attached to the first post at the beginning of this topic.
The size of the booklet versions was outside the allowed limit of 1024Kb. However, the Adobe Reader app offers the option of printing the A5 documents as booklet on A4.

[cbwx34]

This topic has been made sticky so that it will always be at the top of the board. To ensure the availability of the most important documents, they are attached to the first post at the beginning of this topic.
The size of the booklet versions was outside the allowed limit of 1024Kb. However, the Adobe Reader app offers the option of printing the A5 documents as booklet on A4.

Since this is a "sticky" I'll add this link here...

Knife Sharpening Calculators available

... probably every app/calculator/spreadsheet made, came from, or was inspired by Dutchman's work.   

[Dutchman]

...
Since this is a "sticky" I'll add this link here...

Knife Sharpening Calculators available

... probably every app/calculator/spreadsheet made, came from, or was inspired by Dutchman's work.   

Thank you. I have added the link to the first post of this topic.

How do you hide the link in the 'title'??

[RickKrung]

...
Since this is a "sticky" I'll add this link here...

Knife Sharpening Calculators available

... probably every app/calculator/spreadsheet made, came from, or was inspired by Dutchman's work.   

Thank you. I have added the link to the first post of this topic.

How do you hide the link in the 'title'??

There is a little bit of trickery in the embedded link of cbwx34's post that I'm not familiar with, but I think it was cbwx34 who showed me the way that I am familiar with. 

1) Highlight the text you want displayed when the URL is embedded in it. 
                How do you hide the link in the 'title'??


2) Using the link tool button on the tool bar above the message entry box, code is inserted for placing a URL in the text:  [ url ][ /url ]  but without the spaces, which I inserted so it would display here as text.


3) The highlighted text will show up between the brackets, like this (without the spaces):
          [ url ]How do you hide[ /url ]
4) Put an equal sign (=) between the first "url" and the first closing bracket (])
          [ url= ]How do you hide[ /url ]
5) Paste the URL between the equal sign and the closing bracket, URL goes here:
          [ url=https://whateverlinkyouwant.com]How do you hide[ /url ] 
      - again, without the spaces between/next to the brackets.

The highlighted text will display as blue underlined text, indicating there is a link (URL) there that will be activated if clicked. 

How do you hide... the link in the 'title'??   

This one links to your message with the question.  Here is the embedded text (with spaces added):

[ url=https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,1849.msg37105.html#msg37105]How do you hide... [/url ] the link in the 'title'??

Rick

[Dutchman]

That is very clearly explained.
Thank you very much Rick.

[benhung]

Hi Ton,

Thanks for your invitation.  It's my honour to be here, explain your formula to help new user.



To senior members,

First, I would like to say thank you.  All sharing of your works & experiences are excellent, help many newbies quickly pick up sharpening skills.  I learn a lots from you.

There are many way can reach goal, every method is good when we get there.

The method I described next,  may not suit for you.  I use a different view to look at Dutchman's Formula.  I try my best to step into his shoes to understand what he thought.  Different view point may cause confusion made it more complicate. Should beware.



To New users,

Congratulations, you are here.  Dutchman's Formula is a gem.  It's precision, effective and beauty.  It also can be easily  applied to real work, no adjustment needed.

Long story short, let's start.  Want to master your sharpening machine, you have to understand the world of rotation.  I made some animation to explain it.

First, I design 2 funny jig, mount a blade on it to compare with Tormek's knife jig.  Watch how they work and what they are different.  In the next few animation, you can zoom & drag to watch it.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/mszugnu3


Don't punch me, next link might make you more confuse.  Don't worry, I will bring you back soon.  Try drag speed bar to make it faster.  The real moon's speed is faster than it.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/fq6vghg3

I put them on moon's orbit.  They are self rotating,  rotate around moon.  Also drag by moon to rotate around earth.  It's very complicate to figure out.  How can we get which parts is stable? Which point we can approach?


Next link show how I approach.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/asprvpjg

I grab them from moon's orbit.  Setup on my desktop.  I have to make sure something fix and stable.  Don't let the stupid orbit fool me.

Left bottom of the frame has a small stop/play button.  Stop it, drag angle sliding-bar slowly to watch them carefully.  Dutchman's real projection (I name it) and jig rotate radius are in there.  Don't ask me how and why.  The answer is inside the animation diagram.  If you don't get it, look it again and watch it carefully.
(2023.05.12 Update: I modify diagram. Drag the green spot to any part of jig, you can easily figure out the rotating center.)

Ok, my demonstration is done.  The next few link show Dutchman's formula.  All the works is his, not mine.  It's simple, clear and beauty.  I won't do too much explain.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/trpp72ek

This link, I took away many things which may confuse you.  Only left 2 circle link by knife blade.  The blade angle is decided by two tangent line.  It make sense,  sharpening happen at the blade tip only.


The next link is Dutchman's origin theory.  I didn't change anything.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wwuqbvhh


The next is my solution to find Dutchman's projection and jig rotate radius.  Last link is my calculator.  All measure point is center (such as USB center).

https://www.geogebra.org/m/haxutcdv

Drag the jigs slide bar to watch,  no matter the shape and protrude vary,  the projection & radius is same.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wndeq2gn



Best Regards,

Benjamin

[Dutchman]

Amusing 
I added a link in my first post of this topic:
"Finally, Benjamin has posted an extensive and amusing explanation  ..."

[cbwx34]

Hi Ton,

Thanks for your invitation.  It's my honour to be here, explain your formula to help new user.

To senior members,

First, I would like to say thank you.  All sharing of your works & experiences are excellent, help many newbies quickly pick up sharpening skills.  I learn a lots from you.

There are many way can reach goal, every method is good when we get there.

The method I described next,  may not suit for you.  I use a different view to look at Dutchman's Formula.  I try my best to step into his shoes to understand what he thought.  Different view point many cause confusion made it more complicate. Should beware.

To New users,

Congratulations, you are here.  Dutchman's Formula is a gem.  It's precision, effective and beauty.  It also can be easily  applied to real work, no adjustment needed.

Long story short, let's start.  Want to master your sharpening machine, you have to understand the world of rotation.  I made some animation to explain it.

First, I design 2 funny jig, mount a blade on it to compare with Tormek's knife jig.  Watch how they work and what they are different.  In the next few animation, you can zoom & drag to watch it.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/mszugnu3


Don't punch me, next link might make you more confuse.  Don't worry, I will bring you back soon.  Try drag speed bar to make it faster.  The real moon's speed is faster than it.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/pr9xmngu

I put them on moon's orbit.  They are self rotating,  rotate around moon.  Also drag by moon to rotate around earth.  It's very complicate to figure out.  How can we get which parts is stable? Which point we can approach?

Next link show how I approach.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/asprvpjg

I grab them from moon's orbit.  Setup on my desktop.  I have to make sure something fix and stable.  Don't let the stupid obit fool me.

Left bottom of the frame has a small stop/play button.  Stop it, drag angle sliding-bar slowly to watch them carefully.  Dutchman's real projection (I name it) and jig rotate radius are in there.  Don't ask me how and why.  The answer is inside the animation diagram.  If you don't get it, look it again and watch it carefully.

Ok, my demonstration is done.  The next few link show Dutchman's formula.  All the works is his, not mine.  It's simple, clear and beauty.  I won't do too much explain.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/trpp72ek

This link, I took away many things which may confuse you.  Only left 2 circle link by knife blade.  The blade angle is decided by two tangent line.  It make sense,  sharpening happen at the blade tip only.

The next link is Dutchman's origin theory.  I didn't change anything.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wwuqbvhh

The next link is my solution to find Dutchman's projection and jig rotate radius.  Last link is my calculator.  All measure point is center (such as USB center).

https://www.geogebra.org/m/haxutcdv

Drag the jigs slide bar to watch,  no matter the shape and protrude vary,  the projection & radius is same.

https://www.geogebra.org/m/wndeq2gn

Best Regards,

Benjamin

Nice work!

No real difference though... only to where you measure the Projection Distance.  Everything else comes out the same.   (Just add 6mm to your answer.)

Most of the process... the measuring, data entry, etc., were simply designed for ease of use.  For example, it's easier to measure (and maybe understand?) the Projection Distance from a solid point (the Stop Collar) vs. using a special device or "guessing" where the center is.  (Although to be fair, some used a "special device" anyway.)  The "math" is done behind the scenes, and all is based on Dutchman's work.

It would be interesting, instead of the random shapes you used... to apply it to something like the SE-77.  I think if a wide variety of jigs were used, there might be some validity to having a device that "automatically" measured "f".

I looked at the actual calculator... impressive the work done to recreate the SVM-45.