the learning curve.

[Mal55]

Hi,
I have had my T7 since early in the year and fiddled with getting my wood working chisels right.  I decided that seeingI have semi retired, I would be spending more time Iin my shed making sawdust, I might as well have the tools to do the job properly.
I purchased a tomek for school (industrial technology teacher) and it made a big difference to the quality of work the students  produced.
Now the cost had to come from my pocket, I looked at other cheaper brands but soon realised that you get what you pay for so a Tormek T 7 came home early in the year.
I got what I could afford with the idea of adding later (as finance allowed)
Chisels worked fine.  Even got the chisels from a builder friend of mine who used to sharpen his with an angle grinder. (Bevels all over the place)
As I was occasionally doing some wood turning , I got the gouge jig and multi jig when I gotthe t7 butwasnt having much success early on.  I ended up with funny flutes on the gouges and the skews looked ok but probably notthe best.
A month ago I launched into buying the wood turners booklet and DVD.  What a blessing.  THanks Jeff.
Watched the dvd many times now and my gouges are starting to look like they are supposed to.  Occasionally they look funny ie cutting lips going the wrong way.  I have now worked outhow to get rid of the point I used to create at the front rather than the finger nail shape.
The learning curve is working well and I glad I spent the extra to get the tormek.
When I get comfortable with my tools in the workshop, I mightlook at other jigs such as the knife jig as I  have many  fishermen friends who can pay in kind.
Thanks
Malcolm
Malcolm

[courierdog]

Learning curve, especially in the sharpening of knives.
I have both Knife sharpening jigs plus I built the HK-50 style platform jig.
For my kitchen knives this has proven to be a very long learning curve indeed.
To this day I am unable by any means to produce an acceptable straight line sharpening edge on any of my knives.
I do end up with at least one concave portion of the blade.
It is not that I cannot achieve some sharp portions, rather, I cannot achieve a uniform sharp edge for the entire length of blade, on any of my knives.
I have watched all the video demos I can find but so far the Tormek perfection is eluding me.
This frustrates me to no end as I have had so much success with other forms of shaping and sharpening using the Tormek.
To prevent damaging more knives I have decided to only use the one knife as a sacrifice until I Learn and perfect the process.
I have put several nicks in the blade, a few gouges in the grinding wheels, SG250 and SJ250 much to my horror.
Very expensive lessons they were, nothing at this point which cannot be recovered from in time.
Knife sharpening I have come to appreciate is an art form which takes time and a lot of practice. Is it any wonder people in Japan have dedicated their lives to learning how to sharpening a knife. I am only beginning to appreciate this.
I enjoy using a well sharpened tool and in the kitchen a sharp knife can make or break a culinary dish.
If anyone can point me to a better learning process I would very much appreciate it
Thanks 

[Herman Trivilino]

Try spending the same amount of time on each portion of the blade.

Good light is essential and is perhaps the most overlooked necessity.

My knife sharpening skills improved when I got a 40X binocular dissecting microscope, but any magnifier with good light will allow you to monitor your progress.

Visit garage sales for cheap sacrificial kitchen knives.

[courierdog]

I am not very good at segmented sharpening, and this is where I end up with concave portions on the blade
I agree on good lighting. comfortable position during the sharpening process also assists the consistency.
I am not sure on how you use the microscope.
Sacrificial knives are not an issue, how to achieve a consistent sharpening process using the Tormek is.
I am able to consistently sharpen the same knives using the traditional flat water stones.
I want to learn how to achieve the same or better results using the Tormek.

Thanks for the response

[Herman Trivilino]

The purpose of the magnifier is so you can monitor your progress.  You can see which portions of the blade need further attention.

What do you mean by segmented sharpening?  Are you referring to situations where you have to sharpen the knife in segments because it's too long?  Use the HK-50.

[courierdog]

The magnifier I presume you re using after a sharpening process.
I decided to go back and start over on the sacrificial knife (SLOWLY) using the SG250 stone until I had the main imperfections removed.
Then I repeated the process with the SJ250.
The results are better but I have more learning and practice before I will attempt the process with one of the more expensive Japanese Kitchen Knives.
While I like the concept of the HK-50 it seems I do not have the ground bevel set correctly as the knife over hang almost exceeds the width of the blade. I have to revisit the angle of the HK-50 as it should allow me to have hardly any overhang of the blade and I should be touching the grind stone.
For the moment I am beginning to see some sharpening progress using the SVM-45 and the SVM-140.
Knife sharpening is an art form IMO where as my Metal Lathe tool bits are more of a technical challenge.
I am looking at fabricating a jig to hold the tool bit at the correct lateral angle and use the SVM-320 Planer Blade base to provide a consistent lateral movement. I my mind's eye this is quite simple the physical construct is proving a little more difficult.
I wish there was a simple means to attach photos as this, I think, would allow us better communication of our thoughts.
Thanks for your patience.

[Herman Trivilino]

Just upload your photos to a site like Photobucket and then you can easily post them here.

Here is a picture showing how the edge of the HK-50 is made very thin so that it can get very close to the grindstone.

[Herman Trivilino]

The magnifier I presume you re using after a sharpening process.

During the sharpening session I'll keep looking at the edge to monitor my progress.  This is particularly helpful when the steel is of that very hard and brittle type that doesn't like to form a burr.  When a burr forms you know you've ground to the edge and it's time to flip the knife over and grind on the other side.  Most of the time it's easy to feel the burr, but on some types of steel it's very difficult.  Another trick is to wipe the edge on a cloth or paper towel.  If there's a burr it'll grab fibers from the cloth or towel and they can easily be seen with either good light or a magnifier.

I have a magnifying glass mounted just above my Tormek, and I also have a 40X dissecting microscope near by.

[courierdog]

I have been using my sacrificial knife and I notice I am getting a wavy patrve tern along the edge, I am no where near the point of consistency at the knife sharpening process.
I have one Japanese knife which fairly sings when I use it, it has a unique sound to the blade steel, no other knife has this sound, nor does another knife cut like is as well. His knifes for the most part are Japanese Traditional knives and for the most part so is his steel, while he has made some using the multi-layer Damascus steel, I think his best are the old school traditionalist blades. This is also the knife which is currently giving me the most grief trying to sharpen using the Tormek.
Until I can achieve a sharpened straight line blade.
Sakai Takayuki Kamagata Usuba Knife
http://www.paulsfinest.com/Sakai-Takayuki-Kamagata-Usuba-Knife-Aonikou-195mm-7.7.html
or the slightly curved knife, Santoku, I will continue to practice.
The slight curve of the Santoku is giving me fits.
I created my version of the HK-50 using a 2 inch by 12 inch by 1/8 piece of Stainless and ground the reverse bevel using the SG-250 wheel. It took me the better part of a day, going very slowly to achieve as consistent a cut as possible and I have only taken it down to about 1/64 of an inch at the edge as I do not want the edge to be sharp which would create another problem.
Any other suggestions.

[courierdog]

I may not have mentioned it.
I do have a magnifying glass while not near my grinder.
I also have a Celestron digital microscope, I find it difficult to use as the focus is very crude no fine control and the equally crude mounting makes any adjustment unsteady at best.
I would like to find a better support mount for this instrument as I believe a more secure mount would enable a somewhat smoother focus control. http://www.celestron.com/browse-shop/microscopes/digital-microscopes/deluxe-handheld-digital-microscope.
It also has not helped that I fell and injured my left wrist/hand and require carpal tunnel surgery to repair the damage.

[grepper]

Oddly, going too carefully and slowly can cause wavy variations of the bevel, sort of like trying to do calligraphy on absorbent paper with thin watery ink.  If the pen stops or slows down you get blotches. 

You may find that smooth, Zen inspired, even strokes will help produce a nice even bevel.   If you go to slowly it's easy to spend more time on some areas of the blade which quickly shows up on the bevel.  Also, smooth even strokes helps to keep the pressure the same as your draw the knife across the stone.

Hope that helps.

[courierdog]

Hmm, I have never been very good a long steady strokes.
I have done a fair amount of calligraphy, an acquired and practiced art form to say the least one which demands a great deal of patience, at least in my case as my hands are not as fluid as I would like even in my youth.
I had more skill in the long steady trigger pull.
I had test done recently and the neurologist says I have lost a good deal of my finger nerve function.
What she does not know is I have never had some instantaneous functions compared to others. I never had the quick fingers of some piano players inspire of the length. I have had steady hands but even this has to be practiced and with the blade sharpening on this grade of steel has proven to be a significant challenge, one I hope to master regardless how absorbent the paper, LOL
Thanks

[Jeff Farris]

Courierdog,

The direction of this thread leads me to believe that you are working with the grindstone cutting too aggressively. When working on fine cutlery that only needs a bit of touch-up, it is absolutely critical to get the grindstone as smooth as possible with the SP-650 Stone Grader. The grindstone should feel like wet glass when it is running. You shouldn't be able to feel any "grit" in the surface.

If the surface is properly graded, the grindstone cannot cut fast enough to alter the profile of the knife.

[courierdog]

While this observation is expected when using the SG-250
During the shaping process, to remove any imperfections the stone is graded for a coarse approach.
During the sharpening process the SG-250 is graded to achieve a finer grade.
My lack of skill using the Tormek to sharpen blade steel is very apparent given my inconsistent results.
While using the SJ-250 the same rules do apply, to a lessor extent, while both modes are of a sharpening nature due to the fineness of the stone.
Even with the SJ-250 I am getting the somewhat wavy patterns on the sharpened blade which is a factor of my lack of skill using the Tormek to sharpen blade steel..

[Herman Trivilino]

Hmm, I have never been very good a long steady strokes.

How is then, that you managed to master the skill of sharpening a knife by hand?

My hat goes off to anyone who can do that.  I've never been able, which is what prompted me buy the Tormek to begin with.  That was followed with the development of the HK-50 because I couldn't even master freehand sharpening with the Tormek.