Machine Vibration

[bulerias1981]

I have a beautiful granite inspection surface 18x12. I'll roll the shaft across that when I get home. Also, this is the T3 model, its its a smaller unit but not sure of there are tolerance differents. The top holes for the tool bar that you would use for plane irons seem to be made of plastic. And if you press down, they bend left with the weight of the force. I also wonder if that can add to the issues. I see the T7 seems to have Al for the bar instead.

[bulerias1981]

Ok. Well took a good look at it again when I got home from work. Noticed, wow, yeah, its wobbling. Well, just how much wobble is acceptable? For gouges this kind of wobbling is ok, but not a large plane iron that is needed to joining. So I took the drive shaft apart entirely. Put it on my granite inspection slab, and it didn't seem to roll perfectly. But its hard to judge it like that. I found and it was also greased up so it could have been sticking to the surface a bit. Put it back together, and still rocking the same. I sacrificed a cheap Buck bros plane iron which had never been sharpened before. I first checked for squareness with a small 2" engineer square (which I've been using during this entire process) and it was square before I began. I inked up the bevel. Set it up on the jig nice and square.. and with no power just rolled the stone across by hand and ink was removed specifically on the left side only. Which made me look at the tool support bar. Which has a nasty play in it (T3 at least from my experience) that allows it to rock left and right, and if you apply some pressure it can bend a good 2+ mm on the end.
So, possible two problems. The rocking I looked into further by lifting the blade ever so slightly off of the stone, and when the stone makes a revolution it just bearly nicks the blade. Its rocking for sure. Is this normal for T3 since its a lesser model? I don't know. But I think this machine isn't going to work for me. Maybe you have received great results with  aT7, and maybe thats something I need to look into. I love the machine, but I wish it could give me the perfection thats required out of my work. But after all, I could still be wrong about all this, but I'm going in the other direction right now.
I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that can do what I need with a T3.

[Jeff Farris]

I urge you to get the truing tool and true the wheel before you make any other decision.

[boehme]

I am in agreement with Jeff.  It is obvious that the stone needs to be trued up as the first step before doing anything else.  I am not familiar with the T3 so I can't say how sturdy it might be in comparison to the T7 /2000 models, but not much pressure should be necessary, but if the guide bar is flexing under a few ounces of pressure, it could be a problem.  My guess about the amount of force that I am using for plane irons is about half a pound.  A properly graded stone should be doing most of the work and not you.  If you are applying really heavy pressure then that could be a part of the problem.

I believe that you mentioned in a previous post that you have not used the truing tool yet to get the grinding stone trued up.  I cannot overemphasize the importance of that step.  If you are skipping that part of the set up, then you will never get satisfactory results.  If you decide that you need the 2000 or T7, you will still need the truing tool, so it would not hurt to at least verify whether the T3 is going to work for you.  I have never even seen a T3 so I can't say anything specific about it -- all of my experience is with the 2000 which is the predecessor to the T7.  I upgraded my 2000 last week to be essentially the same as the T7 by getting the new redesigned horizontal base.  Now, I just need to find some blue paint and new decals    just kidding -- I like my green machine.

BTW, the bar and the vertical support are both steel and not aluminum on the 2000/T7.  The horizontal bracket is aluminum, but is heavy duty and is not going to flex unless the proverbial 800 pound gorilla gets ahold of it.

[bulerias1981]

Does the truing tool come with the T7 or 2000? What is the name of the jig exactly?
I'm wondering if it is overly wobbly, how would truing the surface fix the vibration. But I guess I'll give it a try. It still doesn't solve the aspect of possibly something wrong with the entire machine as the honing wheel seems to wobble as well.
I do not have a problem with sharpness, as I get a great razor sharp edge and my left arm is missing a lot of hair. But it is actually more  important to be square first, then sharp.

[Jeff Farris]

The truing tool comes with the T-7, but not with any other Tormek system.

[bulerias1981]

I'm wondering if I should invest in the truing tool, or  just return the T3 and get the T7?

[Jeff Farris]

Looking for the level of precision that you have mentioned, I feel you will be much happier with the T-7.

[bulerias1981]

I think thats what I'll end up doing. Thank you.

[Ken S]

I found this topic looking for the history of wobbling problems. I had a feeling that part of the problem might be the use of a stamped washer between the shaft collar and the grinding wheel instead of a more precise machined washer. I shared this concern with Rick K, our resident forum machinist. Rick examined the washer from his T8 with both his critical eye and a high precision micrometer. He found machining marks and a highly flat washer, thus ending my speculation. This topic is from several years ago. I do not recall recent reincarnations. This leads me to several possible conclusions:

The washer might not have been the problem, or at some point, stamped washers may have been upgraded to machined washers. Tormek has quietly upgraded several things as improvements in technology evolve.

With the redesign of the shaft into the EZYlock shaft, the level of precision machining may have eliminated or lessened the problem.

In this particular case, the problem may have been caused, at least in part, by the all plastic housing of the T3. This was corrected by the redesigned machined zinc top of the T4, using the same technology as the T8.

The problem may have been caused by the grinding wheel not being trued. I have trued several Tormek grinding wheels and found them at least close to true, however, I have always felt that the TR-50 truing tool is essential for all Tormeks. In my opinion, not including it with the T3/4 was a marketing price point tactic.

If we click on the names of the posters, we will see the number of years these members were active. There is a belief at Tormek that forum members join, ask one question, and then disappear. The record for these members would indicate that some of us continue to grow with the forum. I suspect that many of our members become inactive due to age and health rather than lack of interest.

I find this topic a good example of good troubleshooting practice.

Ken