Bowl Gouge - how to fix convex sides?

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm new to turning. I'm working on some cherry bowls. I ground my gouge to #6 75mm hole A. It just doesn't look correct and I had a few catches. Any suggestions appreciated:

[Rob]

Hi Mike

I'm guessing that with jig setting No 6 you were aiming for a long swept back wings fingernail grind.  Is that right?  If so there are two different issues I would suggest you consider:

- firstly the picture looks to me like your wings aren't any where near ground enough.  To get the "Ellsworth" type fingernail grind which I believe jig setting 6 tends to be close to...you need to spend time just grinding the wings of the gouge.  Do each wing separately and then make sure at the end that they are symmetrical.  Expect to take quite a long time on each of the wings (I'm talking maybe half an hour or more per wing...its not a quick process).
- secondly, given you're new to turning, I don't believe a very long winged fingernail grind is appropriate because it takes quite a bit of skill to use that grind effectively.  You might find it better to start with jig setting 3 and not sweep the wings back so far.  It will be more forgiving and it wont take nearly as long to grind.

Catches are an inevitable part of learning to turn.  I didn't take any classes when I started and I think my learning took longer for it.  If you have the opportunity, it might be time and money well spent to have say a morning on spindle turning and an afternoon on bowls to "speed up time".

Welcome to the forum in any event and keep us posted.

[Mike Goetzke]

Rob - thanks for the reply. Yes, trying to duplicate Ellsworth just because I read so much about it. If possible can you give this newbie all the specs for a beginner for me? You mentioned #3 but what depth and front or back hole (A or B) for the wheel set back. Also, I can be dangerous and remove lots of material quickly. I have the dry grinder setup as well as the T-7.

Thanks,

Mike

[Rob]

Hi Mike

First off I recommend you watch Jeff Farris (moderator of this forum and long time Tormek expert) on the following youtube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyScXCyh4Jc

Jeff runs through the setups with the gouge jig and specifically mentions the Ellsworth grind.  Personally if I were you I would use jig setting 4, P=65mm and Hole A for your practice fingernail grind.  It's not as far as the Ellsworth but it is pretty useful and a good compromise between fast stock removal and yet forgiving for someone new to the craft.

Spend as much time on the wings as you can so they're swept back as much as they should be.  If you check your manual there is a diagram that you can use as a reference to check your progress.  If you don't have a manual, you can download the pdf version from the Tormek website by registering and entering a few details incl the machine serial number.

The Tormek, is a precision instrument and like all other sharpening systems takes a little while to learn to use really effectively.  This forum is actually the best place to bounce ideas around as you learn.  We're always open to help.  Try that spec and see how you get on...don't forget the wings (they will take longer than a couple of passes as Jeff says in the video :-)

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks Rob. I do have the DVD from the Woodworker's kit (and watched it a few times) and the manual. I will try the new grind for my next bowl. On my first I had a couple catches but much better on my second. My big issue was cleaning out the inside of the bowl - seemed like I couldn't cut well as I reached the bottom. Especially when it got deeper. Maybe the new grind will help.

Mike

[Rob]

That is the trickiest part of a bowl Mike. The deeper it is, the more tricky to get a continuous sweep from the edge to the centre.  Have you got any round nosed scrapers?  They will make the transition from side wall to base of the bowl a lot easier.

[Rob]

Here's a few pics of a bowl gouge ground to jig setting 4, p=65, hole A for your reference Mike

[Mike Goetzke]

Thank you those pictures are great. I definately need more side grind. I have a Sorby kit and pretty sure I have an oval round nose scraper.

Mike

[Ken S]

Welcome to the forum, Mike.  I'm not a turner, so can't help you.  I did want to compliment both you and Rob on the fine quality of your photos.

Ken

[Rob]

Good man - you can tweek the scrapers on the torlok toolrest to keep them tip top sharp.

[mike40]

Welcome to the forum Mike. I am new to the Tormek so it will be quite awhile before I will be giving any advice. I still turn occasionally, so I'm sure I will learn from your questions. All good stuff as I am planning to get the turners kit. So please keep posting!

[Rob]

http://youtu.be/jc8Rdx2O17c

This should highlight the method a little better.  Apologies for the quality.  Filming with an iphone whilst narrating and operating an articulated bowl gouge jig don't appear to be one of my stronger talents!

The point is to show how you keep the grinding focused on the wings and don't worry so much about the very end of the gouge until the end when you match everything up.

[Mike Goetzke]

http://youtu.be/jc8Rdx2O17c

This should highlight the method a little better.  Apologies for the quality.  Filming with an iphone whilst narrating and operating an articulated bowl gouge jig don't appear to be one of my stronger talents!

The point is to show how you keep the grinding focused on the wings and don't worry so much about the very end of the gouge until the end when you match everything up.

Thanks for the video. I'm as new to sharpening as turning. I assumed once the new grind cleaned up the steel I was done. Didn't realize the user had some much control of the output. Here is my second attempt:

[Rob]

No worries Mike...its a very common mis-understanding of how to grind a fingernail grind.  People assume the jig handles everything.  Mostly that's true but not the length of the wings.
Your picture looks better, ie more like I was expecting. Now see how that grind performs on the lathe.  Remember, keep the bevel rubbing....if you're getting catches, its the angle you're presenting the bevel at that's the problem.

Slow down as you approach the centre of the bowl and take small cuts at first ie little material as you develop the muscle memory with the tool.