first suggestion to be part of our forum primer

[Ken S]

I know ow exciting it is to open the box of a Tormek.  The energy flows and the natural impulse is to set up, grab an edged object, and have at it.

May I make a more boring suggestion?  Before setting up the machine, read the included book very carefully.  It's your book.  Don't be afraid to highlight, underline or use tape bookmarks.   

Most of the common beginner problems are covered in the book.  They are not always covered  thoroughly enough to circumvent a hands on learning curve, however, having a good working knowledge of the book will generally keep you on the right track.

If you are reading this before your Tormek arrives, make sure you have a Sharpie marker.  this simple little marker will be invaluable in your learning curve.  It will keep you on target with setting bevels. 
Do not shortcut it!

Do not try to avoid using the stone grader.  I include myself in the large group of (foolish) users who tried to avoid using the stone grader in the hope of making my precious grinding wheel last longer.  The wheel is a consumable.  It is designed to be worn down and replaced.  A key word here is "eventually".  That might be a very long time.  Has anyone on the forum actually worn out a wheel through use?

Before leaving this topic, the way to stretch the life of a wheel is regular and careful dressing.  Using the whole surface of the wheel instead of wearing a narrow groove helps, too.


I must leave to pick up my granddaughter at school.  I hope this gets the ball rolling.  Please feel free to comment and add.

Ken

[Elden]

Excellent Ken! Definitely, "when all else fails, read the manual", shouldn't be the last approach!

[Herman Trivilino]

Like you, Ken, I was reluctant to wear down my grindstone by using the stone grader.  And heaven forbid I should have to use the truing tool.  That would just turn my precious and expensive grindstone to dust.

I have never worn a grindstone all the way down, but I did have to replace the original when the mainshaft rusted and I broke it getting it out. All that saving of the grindstone over that seven-year period was wasted as that broken grindstone still had a diameter of about 200 mm (out of the original 250 mm).  And in case you're a math type like me, that stone did not have 80% of itself remaining.  Yes, 200/250 equals 80%, but (200/250)² equals 64%.

The same syndrome persisted when I got the replacement (expensive) grindstone.  I've had it for four years now and trued it for the first time just the other day.  It was badly out of round.

I now see the error of my ways.  The only way I'm going to get really sharp knives and really square chisels is with a grindstone that's not only properly trued, but also properly dressed.

Speaking of being cheap, when I bought my Tormek back in 2002 I wanted to save shipping costs so I bought an extra tube of honing compound.  Here we are 11 years later and I still have never opened it.  The first tube is almost empty, so it won't be long now ...

The other rookie mistake I made was applying too much mineral oil to the leather honing wheel. It's to be done one time and one time only as part of the initial breaking in.  An oil-saturated honing wheel won't remove burrs or polish bevels worth a darn.

[Ken S]

Back to my first post:

When I first acquired my Tormek, I had a lot of difficulty using the angle master.  Being the inventive type, I devised an improved version.  I knew it would work much better.

Before I had a chance to build a prototype, I had another sharpening session.  At the time, my improvised shop was also my unheated garage.  That day happened to be very pleasant, so I set up my Tormek on my Work-mate outside.  That's a very nice way to work. The light was great. To my great surprise, the angle master worked quite well.  The problem was not the anglemaster.  The problem was trying to use it in poor light.  I had ignored the instruction book directive to work in good light.

I often read posts by new users who are having difficulties similar to mine.  It is easy to overlook the fact that all over the planet thousands of Tormeks are functioning as designed.  We overlook the obvious problem, operator error.  The problem with untreated operator error is that it all too often becomes operator frustration and soon the operator gives up in disgust.

One of the many nice things about this forum is that there are no hot shots.  None of us are child geniuses.  The Tormek is not a difficult machine to learn.  My Dad had a favorite saying, "We can be bold in doing something if we are first humble in learning it."

Let's all keep learning and sharing that journey, both the successes and the oopses.

Ken

ps My modification for the angle master would have been to lengthen the bearing surface along the blade.  (The surface at the bottom of the keystone which sits on the blade)  I would have removed the keystone on the side away from the sharp edge of the blade and made it square.  It would no longer be symmetrical; I don't think the Swedish engineers would have liked that.  I still think it would work better that way.  My real problem was trying to work in poor light.  Old eyes didn't help, either.

Herman, good thoughts.

[Herman Trivilino]

Good start, Ken.

One of my first mistakes was not setting the angle correctly.  I read that butcher knives could be ground at 40º so I set the angle master at that angle and off I went.  I should have read that the correct setting on the angle master is 20º if you want an edge angle of 40º.

The other thing I did was prepare the grindstone with the rough side of the stone grader before starting.

The problem is that the manual, while wonderfully detailed, is not as exciting as using your new Tormek to sharpen something.

What we need are "getting started" guides for people who want to dig right in and sharpen a knife.  Or a wood chisel.  Or scissors.

[Ken S]

Good point, Herman.

I've noticed more products coming with "'quick start guides".  I think that's a great idea.  Naturally I want to commit the 437 safety possibilities to memory,  but only (sometime) after I use the machine.

I believe if a new user can consistently sharpen a chisel and a kitchen knife well, that can form the basis for sharpening anything else within the range of the Tormek.  All of the basic skills are present with these two tools.  Preparing the stone; setting the bevel, including checking it with the Sharpie; knowing when to use the coarse or fine grading setting; and honing with the leather strop.  other posts have correctly noted the importance of listening to the cutting action; feeling the stone; and watching the water flow over the tool.  All of these are part of successfully sharpening a chisel and a kitchen knife.

Confident with basic Tormek skill, the new user can more intelligently benefit from studying nontormek specific material such as Leonard Lee's and Ron Hocks's books.  (Herman, you will find that Leonard Lee recommends a certain "toothiness" for a kitchen knife edge.  He doesn't want the edge polished super sharp.  He prefers a little grabbiness to catch things like tomato skin.  He recommends using a 1000 grit stone and no further.) That kind of related information, as well as Ron Hock's discussion of bolster thinning and the general discussion of steel and edges in both books is certainly useful in a Tormek education.

The forum can be a great source of information for things like how to put a specific grind on a turning tool.  No one loses anything by sharing experience, good or bad.

My thought for the forum "quick start guide" would be as an aid to help the new user achieve the skill and confidence with the Tormek, chisel and knife.  That could easily be the difference between a Tormek user and  one who has a Tormek in a box on a high shelf while using dull tools.

The guide should be readily available.  (That's why I suggest making it like the welcome messages.)  It should not involve having to use the search function.  (often another frustration).  It should be available to anyone who finds the forum, regardless of whether one purchases a Tormek, a competitor's product, or no product.  An interested person should realize that a Tormek is a very versatile tool, which also happens to have a modest learning curve. (Anyone who is able to access the information online should know about learning curves from the computer.)

It should also not be too long.  I had best end here.

Ken

[grepper]

Without some way to organize this stuff, this thread will soon sink and fall off the bottom of the page into the giant heap of all threads gone before, accessible only by deep browsing or the mighty search box.

So, here is another idea:  How about a top level, (board or category not sure of the proper term), called something like Tips and Tricks with different subcategories. 

TIPS and TRICKS and ADVICE (No questions here please)
   Using the Stone Grader
   Using the Truing Tool
   Knife Sharpening
   Using the Tormek band aids
   ...

This area would not be for questions or babble, but rather a place where folks could place helpful information they have gleaned from experience, such as problems they may have encountered and solved,  handy suggestions for things they have found to work well and things to avoid.

Replies to posts in this area would be extremely limited, and only for very helpful information directly relating to the post, or to, and I would expect only rarely, correct erroneous information. 

Posts here would be descriptive and succinct, more like wiki articles and would never go off subject.  Information within the post would be limited to being such that it was pertinent to the post's subject line.

This would at least bring some order. 

Just another idea to ponder.

[Rob]

Another cracking suggestion Mark.  I couldnt agree more and to be honest I'm losing the faith a bit

I've stopped volunteering ideas in respect of the wiki for the moment because whats now happening is everyone is starting to create the copy about which we spoke, but with no hope of it ever achieving the original goal ie reducing search, making it succinct, accessible etc etc. People are now just "lobbing" advice willy nilly into the ether.....so the energy to create the copy is fantastic.....but its all going to be wasted because it wont get grouped, organised, labelled etc.  Finding it three weeks from now will be precisely as difficult as ever twas thus.

Hey ho.....if the status quo being preserved is the primary need here...then fair enough.  So much free of charge and willing competence though....it seems a bit of a wasted opportunity. Thats life I guess 

[Ken S]

Rob, I think it's premature to start losing faith.  I probably lob as many ideas into the ether as anyone.  I would not call the process willy nilly.

I don't see the process as being all that difficult.  Each portion of the forum has a locked message from Jeff.  The messages state that they were originated by Jeff.  I assume you can edit, delete of add, Jeff?

A second locked message might be entitled "quick start guide" or something similar.  I would suggest keeping it locked so that it always appears in the top of the first page.  No need for frustrating searches.  And, being locked, but editable by the forum moderator, would keep it manageable.

Speaking only for myself, I would be quite comfortable turning control over to Jeff.  I don't believe it would impose a large work burden for him.  With copy-paste from the pool of ideas, editing should be minor. Personally, I don't care whether I would receive any name notation or not for what I contribute.

I would not expect the "first draft" to be the end all.  That's the beauty of future editing.  For the record, if I should happen to notice any fumble fingered typos, I would send the editor a private email through the forum.

I consider this a work in progress.  While I don't think we should procrastinate a lot, I see no need for immediate speed..

Jeff, any thoughts?

Ken

[grepper]

I kind of like both.  A quick start guide and a subcategorized board.

Unless there was some categorization, a quick start guide would be huge.  Maybe a sticky quick start guide under each category, along with experienced user posts. 

If I wanted to find out about the stone grader for example, a whole category of user experiences, solutions, tips and tricks, might make for a good read, and give a very broad understanding of that particular subject.  I think it would be difficult to get the broad, depth of knowledge in a quick start guide.

I was also trying to think of a way that I was not "volunteering"  an ongoing commitment from Jeff. 

[grepper]

Or maybe even something really simple like subcategories in the General Discussion board.  At least that way, if you wished to find info on the stone grader for example, you have a more focused set of posts.

Currently, it's just a great big bin o' random posts.

Said Mark, thinking out loud.

[Rhino]

"I have never worn a grindstone all the way down, but I did have to replace the original when the mainshaft rusted and I broke it getting it out. All that saving of the grindstone over that seven-year period was wasted as that broken grindstone still had a diameter of about 200 mm (out of the original 250 mm).  And in case you're a math type like me, that stone did not have 80% of itself remaining.  Yes, 200/250 equals 80%, but (200/250)² equals 64%."

Herman,

I agree with you.

Don't feel too bad.  You are not going to use the grindstone until the diameter is zero.  The end of life is probably around 175 mm.  So you used most of it's life.

[Rob]

I don't see the process as being all that difficult.  Each portion of the forum has a locked message from Jeff.  The messages state that they were originated by Jeff.  I assume you can edit, delete of add, Jeff?

Ken

I dont see the process as difficult either......what I see is a bunch of knowledgable people positively bursting to get going in doing something really useful, but no apparent will to implement it.  We even have a software guru in that mix who has taken the trouble to find the documentation of the software of this forums website, read it (boring as hell believe me) and locate the functionality its capable of which would support this idea.  I wouldnt be in the least bit surprised if he (Grepper) was kind enough to actually implement any necessary changes under moderator supervision and control. (If that were a barrier to entry).

The whole process is just without a rudder, no direction.  Do you not all see that without the infrastructure, the framework, these good posts people are putting in will be just future serach engine fodder.  So hey, I'm impatient and frustated yes, because if the actions were co-ordinated and managed everybody would start deriving the benefits sooner.  The longer we leave it, the more dissipated the energy will be until it just falls back to status quo.  I'm a great believer in momentum, we had it at the weekend.  Im rather hoping for action, not homeless posts.  This isnt personal by the way...its just someone has to be less diplomatic than you guys...apparently thats me!

[grepper]

Simply the discussion of possibilities is helpful in clarifying what's needed, what's possilble, and what's not.

Wiki -  Significant roadblocks.

Colloraborative editing - It has issues, many that I did not speak of as there was no point at the time.

Ongoing responsibility of a one man editor/poster - May have issues too.

[Rob]

OK so why cant we circulate a simple word file that we collaboratively edit until we jointly sign it off and publish.  Then all the forum needs to do is write the high level sticky categories.  Thats no effort at all.  All the effort then gets deployed in word offline till we publish.  Can you attach documents on this forum.  Pics I appreciate yes...but a word file?

We could use dropbox as the ftp site or any of a million others...have a core group of collaborators which currently stands at (maybe subject to consent of course) Jeff, you, me, Herman, Mike, Elden, Ken, Rhino?....Justin?  Any number who might be interested, that list just naturally springs to mind.

The sooner we get going, the sooner we'll uncover what the real challenges are