DBS-22 Grinding Issue

[Ric Albano]

After several grinding attempts with my new jig I am noticing that the P facet is where the S facet should be according to the instruction manual.  They are the reversed.

Furthermore the Point is incorrect

I've watched Alan Hotham's YouTube video over and over but thats not helping

I have a photo to show you but i don't know how to send it

[Ken S]

Ric,

I sharpened several drill bits when I bought my DBS-22.  I am impressed with the jig, however, it does seem to have a learning / experience curve.  I relied on the Alan Holtham video for instruction.  Like you, I watched it several times.

I found it does a very nice job of sharpening, but it requires careful watching "sneaking up" on getting the primary facets just right.  I suggest doing what I did: slowly going through the operations with several drill bits.  In my case, I found the jig is quite capable of good work once operator inexperience/error is overcome.  The objective is accurate work, not speed.

I found that bits somewhere around 3/8" to 1/2" are good for learning.  They are easy to see.

Hang in there.  It is worth being patient in the learning process to acquire skill with this well designed jig.

Ken

[Ric Albano]

Ken,

I get the 4 facet grinds (P), (S) but the point is still the flat chisel edge (C) and not the point (F)

I've been taking my time and watching Alan H and reading the manual carefully

Ric

[Ken S]

Ric,

You're getting closer.  I think you may not be grinding quite enough on the primary facets.  Try adjusting the screw just a little more, to allow the jig to remove just a little more metal.  You should see the cutting edges of the primary facets getting closer together.  Go slow; sneak up on it.  I have not been able (so far) to grind the primary facets in one shot.  It requires several small steps.  Considering the cost of good drill bits, it's time well spent.

I started with a larger bit so that I could easily see what was happening. (old eyes)

I have used the DBS-22 enough to be able to get a nicely sharpened four facet bit.  I have not used it enough to be able to do it quickly.  It's a well designed jig and quite versatile.  I believe it is well worth the time and frustration to master it.  You are most of the way there; keep at it.  You will be pleased with your sharp bits.

Keep us posted.

Ken

ps The online site for Fine Woodworking has an excellent you tube by Ernie Conover on using standard drill bits for precise work with wood.  Ernie really knows his stuff and is a fine teacher. It's well worth watching.  In case you can't access it, the jist of it is to use a small bit to accurately locate the hole, followed by a bit just a little smaller than the final size of the hole.  Then use the final size. 

The four facet sharpening should lessen the need for the pilot hole.  However, for critical work I would continue using Ernie's three step method.

[Ric Albano]

Ken,

On small bits i can grind the P facet in one shot.  Wider bits i need to tweek on the wheel to get the whole face

My problem seems to be with the S facet.  It grinds to a flat chisel and not the point

How can  i post a picture here?

Ric

[Ken S]

Ric,

I wish I could help you with posting a picture.  My digital skills are very limited.  Someone else on the forum should be able to help.

As to your issue with the secondary facets, you may be all right.  The primary facets do the drilling.  The secondary facets give support to the cutting edge while allowing clearance.  If the drill bit was a chisel, the primary facet would be the microbevel, the plane where the cutting happens.  The secondary facet would be the rest of the bevel, the supporting but not in the way role.

My gut feeling is you may need to tweak the depth setting for your secondary facet grinding.  Again, my advice is to start with very little and sneak up on it.  The extra time you spend on getting the first few bits right will be repaid many times in the future.

How about an assist from your guys who know how to post photos?

Ken

[Mike Fairleigh]

To post photos, you first have to "host" them on a photo hosting site.  Many use photobucket.com, where you can get a free account very easily.  Once you have an account there, you upload your photos to that site.  It has all kinds of features so that you can organize your pictures into directories, etc.

Once uploaded, each picture will have a line of "img" (image) code which you can copy and paste into your post here.  Here's the photobucket window showing what I mean.  This is a photo of my Greenlee drawknife, which I uploaded to Photobucket long ago.  If I want to post the pic here, I just go to that picture in Photobucket, copy the contents as shown by the arrow...



then, back here in my Tormek (or any other) forum posting, I just paste that IMG value into my post, wherever I want the picture to appear.  When I click the "Post" button you magically see...



Trust me, it takes 10 times as long to write this up as it does to actually do it.

And by the way, I took a chunk out of my right index finger with that very drawknife this week. 

[Ken S]

Brave, Mike.  (and Ouch!....Didn't you reed the safety portion of the Greenlee instructions where it says to only cut wood? 

Ken

[Ric Albano]

Thanks KSMIKE.  Now i can explain what i'm talking about.

KEN S

What does this look like i'm doing wrong?



Ric

[Ken S]

Ric,

It looks like your problem is the depth of the secondary facet grind.  Try adjusting the depth of cut screw half a turn.  The trailing edges of the primary facets should get a little closer (less of a broad chisel).  Keep adjusting until the trailing edges meet.

Ken

ps I modified this post.  I had mixed up the facets.  (I haven't used the DBS-22 enough to be able to write away from home) 

[Jeff Farris]

Rick,

I'm kind of staying quiet on this, because I just don't have enough experience with the DBS-22 yet. However, that doesn't look like a normal twist drill in the photo. The raised lip at the outside of the flute looks a bit off. Is that lip causing you problems?

[Ken S]

Ric,

Looking at your photo, I think you need to grind more at the secondary facets.  you should see the f point get smaller.  If you go too far, you will have only the former secondary facets.  That's ok; just regrind the primary facets and you'll be fine.  Do this gradually to see the effect while you are learning.


Please note that I modified an earlier post here.  I mixed up the facets.  I should have duplicated the condition on my tormek before writing.

Ken

[Ric Albano]

Ken S

SUCCESS!  Thanks Ken S, I took your word for it and S grinded a little more but at a marginal depth setting each time.  See my photo



I changed my technique and found a comfort level of keeping my fingers off the jig and on the edge of the grinding plate.

Do you notice that when you are near the end of the grinding that the stone still makes contact on its right edge of the wheel?  I don't think the wheel is warped and i have the Universal Guide firmly tight

Thanks Ken S

Ric

By the way

[Ken S]

Good job, Ric!  I know (from personal experience) that what you went through is frustrating.  However, you have learned well.  You have earned your sharp bits.

I have not noticed the end of the stone making contact first.  Your stone may not be quite parallel.  That may be more of a problem in theory than in practice.

I hope you will continue posting as you move through the world of drill bit sharpening.  With the jig being new and pricey, I suspect there are a lot of people on the forum who are interested.

With experience, the jig is very flexible.  One of my future projects is to sharpen my old bell hanger bits (12" to 36" long, with a hole for pulling wire).  They work well when sharpened to 90 degrees, as they are used in soft wood.  The DBS-22 really is versatile.

Ken

[Ken S]

Ric, I rewatched Al Holtham's video.  He covers getting the facet edges right at about twelve minutes.  It's a well done video, however, that portion could be covered in a little more depth. 

One question I have:  I can see the benefit of the four facet grind for bits where the final bit is also the initial bit.  No question there.  I do wonder, however, when a small pilot hole is used first, how beneficial the four facet grind is.  It's nice to have the option.  I think just using the secondary facet would suffice for drilling where the initial hole is with a centering bit.  Any thoughts?  How about you machinists in the forum?

Ken